Why No Elders In Baptist Churches?

[Pastor Larry]

I am not aware of any baptist churches with at least one elder except for those who are in between pastors. Elders in teh NT are pastors. There is no separate office of elders. The only question is whether a church has one elder or multiple elders.

 

[EdSutton]

I am not aware of any baptist churches with at least one elder except for those who are in between pastors. Elders in teh (sic) NT are pastors. There is no separate office of elders. The only question is whether a church has one elder or multiple elders.

With all due respect, I would ask where is the Biblical basis for rolling the office of bishop or elder ('episcope or presbuteros) and the spiritual gift of pastor/teacher into one amalgamation. The gifts and callings of God are irevocable, as I read Scripture. This is not said about the offices. And in fact, I think I remember Jesus giving an illustration where one could "no longer be steward". And I'd tack on that I believe the Biblical norm is for a plurality of elders, witness Peter's comment. Seems to keep mere mortals from usurping the role of 'Chief Shepherd' somehow.

Ed

 

[Jack Matthews]

So the congregation doesn't vote, but accepts the recommendation of the elders, correct?

What role do the ministers serve?

The congregation votes on recommendations brought by the elders, and recommendations cannot be made until there is a unanimous vote of the elders. Consensus is, we believe, a sign of God's guidance.

All the members of the church are ministers. The staff use their vocational calling and gifts to work with various ministry teams.

 

[Brother Bob]

Does the congregation vote on items of business for the church?

The male members do but in electing Pastor/Moderator we allow the whole membership to vote.

 

[Bob Farnaby]

The church I'm a member of has a plurality of elders, is reasonably consevative but not really calvanistic (some individuals are, but not the church as a whole). We have one who has the title pastor who does the bulk of the preaching. We also have decons who serve the church in a leadership role.. and overall we don't get too hung up on titles, it's God's work, God's church, we all seek to worship Him and do what we can in the fellowship.

Regards
Bob

 

[drfuss]

A good paper on the need for church elders is found on:

http:www.bible.org/page.asp?page_id=414

 

[2BHizown]

The two mentioned above, Capitol Hill and Bethlehem are both reformed baptists which commonly do have elders I believe.

 

[Tom Butler]

With all due respect, I would ask where is the Biblical basis for rolling the office of bishop or elder ('episcope or presbuteros) and the spiritual gift of pastor/teacher into one amalgamation.

Look at Acts 20, where Paul calls the elders of the congregaton at Ephesus to him In v.28 he says the Holy Spirit has made them overseers of the Ephesus flock, and urges them to be shepherds (another word for pastor) to His church there..​

 

[Hope of Glory]

I think an elder can be a pastor, and a pastor can be an elder, but that does not preclude the idea that Scripture says there should be multiple elders, nor does it require the preacher to be the pastor and vice versa.

 

[Brother Bob]

Some churches ministers are all called Elders and they have 7 Deacons along with a clerk, assistant clerk treasurer and assistant treasurer and thats it. Whoever is the Pastor/Moderator is an Elder for that is what all of the preachers are called. We do not call any Reverand.

 

[EdSutton]

Look at Acts 20, where Paul calls the elders of the congregaton at Ephesus to him In v.28 he says the Holy Spirit has made them overseers of the Ephesus flock, and urges them to be shepherds (another word for pastor) to His church there..​

While I fully agree that one of the 'jobs' of the elders is that of shepherding the flock, that alone does not give Biblical basis for confuting or conflating the gifts and the offices, IMO, anyhow. Timothy was told to "do the work of an evangelist" but as far as I know, it is never said that he had the gift of evangelist. Paul, the greatest of missionaries and church planters who claimed the gift or title of apostle (one of fewer than 25 including the Lord Jesus Christ who are so named BTW, as far as I can tell), as I read Scripture refers to himself as a deacon but again, as far as I can tell, not as an elder. Philip is referred to as an evangelist, and as I read Scripture, is one we usually consider as a deacon, one of the first seven, but I don't see him referred to as an elder, either. One of the qualifications of a bishop/elder is that of "being able to teach", but nowhere do I see that one has to have the gift of teacher. I just figure that the Lord had recorded what He intended, and one does not necessarily equal the other.

In His grace,
Ed

 

[Pastor Larry]

With all due respect, I would ask where is the Biblical basis for rolling the office of bishop or elder ('episcope or presbuteros) and the spiritual gift of pastor/teacher into one amalgamation.

Acts 20:28 and 1 Peter 5:1-2 along with Titus 1:6-8 make clear that the elder is the one who oversees and pastors. There is no such thing as an elder who is not an overseer and pastor. There is no biblical basis for a bifurcation of these offices. There is no elder who is not told to oversee and pastor, and likewise, there is no overseer who is not also a pastor and elder, and no pastor who is not an elder and overseer. They are three functions of the one office.

The gifts and callings of God are irevocable, as I read Scripture. This is not said about the offices.

That verse is in Rom 11 and it deals with God's calling of Israel as a nation to be his people. It has nothing to do with this topic.

And in fact, I think I remember Jesus giving an illustration where one could "no longer be steward".

HOw is that relevant here? A person can certainly be disqualified from being a pastor. That does not change the fact that a pastor is an elder.

And I'd tack on that I believe the Biblical norm is for a plurality of elders, witness Peter's comment. Seems to keep mere mortals from usurping the role of 'Chief Shepherd' somehow.

There is not enough information in Scripture to mandate a plurality of equal elders. The biblical pattern seems to be that there was an elder who was a lead elder, such as James at Jerusalem. And no one fit to be a pastor would think of trying to usurp Jesus' role as Chief Shepherd. If he is tempted by that, he is immediately disqualified.

 

[EdSutton]

I'll also tack on for free :type:, that I notice most churches have little trouble finding someone to fill the role of Diotrephes.

Ed

 

[Brother Bob]

Hey! it works so lets keep marching. lol

 

[Tom Butler]

I do think that there were a plurality elders in the early New Testatment churches because there were a number of meeting places (like homes) and preaching stations. An elder to lead each meeting place make sense.

A plurality of equal elders (emphasis on equal) can be a problem. The same problem occurs when you have two equal partners in a business. It creates the potential for gridlock. Any organization, business or church, functions best when there are clear lines of authority and responsibility.

If everybody is boss, you can see the problem. Same if nobody is boss.

I recognize that there is a spiritual dimension that comes into play here. The elder system will work fine and so will the deacon system when you have spiritual men involved.

 

[EdSutton]

I do think that there were a plurality elders in the early New Testatment churches because there were a number of meeting places (like homes) and preaching stations. An elder to lead each meeting place make sense.

A plurality of equal elders (emphasis on equal) can be a problem. The same problem occurs when you have two equal partners in a business. It creates the potential for gridlock. Any organization, business or church, functions best when there are clear lines of authority and responsibility.

If everybody is boss, you can see the problem. Same if nobody is boss.

I recognize that there is a spiritual dimension that comes into play here. The elder system will work fine and so will the deacon system when you have spiritual men involved.

Uh, I thought Jesus was s'posed to be the boss.

Ed

 

[drfuss]

Tom writes:
"I do think that there were a plurality elders in the early New Testatment churches because there were a number of meeting places (like homes) and preaching stations. An elder to lead each meeting place make sense."


I think there were a plurality of elders in each church with different ministries to the church.
A good paper on this is: http:www.bible.org/page.asp?page_id=414 .

 

[Tom Butler]

Uh, I thought Jesus was s'posed to be the boss.

Ed, of course you are right.

And, of course, I shouldn't have referred to anyone with leadership responsibilities in a congregation as a boss.

The principles are still the same, though.