I know the messages I gave after seminary were much better than before I graduated. Many times before I was faced with the question of what to believe because I could not evaluate the message using the text. I was also unable to read critical commentaries.
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Why pastors should learn Biblical Languages
- Thread starter TomVols
- Start date
Our Baptist pastor never indicates he has exegeted.
Nor does he teach Theology.
[He just went through Philippians ; he did NOT teach the Incarnation! He did not explain huparchon,morphe or kenotic Christology or define kenao by the participal 'took'; he did not reference Chalcedon ; he did not contrast Word-Man Christology with Word- Flesh, he did not discuss whether Wallace or Burke are right or wrong on relational subordination among the Persons in God in Phil 2,-God is the Boss of God- he did not reference Hoover's Harvard work on harpagmon! AND SO FORTH]
It is all application. It is all how to live. It is never what to believe.
The discussion in this forum is not relevant to our pastor despite him taking his MDiv from Western which requires languages.
Each sermon of his has an outline which congreants fill out off the power point screen like:
GOD'S LOVE, JOHN 3:16
1. God loved the ______________ ("world" appears on the screen and parishoners write that word in the blank. (that IS typical! I am NOT exaggerating!)
They feel they have learned!
Isn't that clever? Isn't it nice they learn so much?
In contrast, I now am supervising a PhD thesis (my first) on how Barth influenced Hauerwas to consider theology the basis of ethics.
But in our church it is not. Ethics is all. There is no Theology unless it is Sunday School.
I get so discouraged. This month I am 70. I wrestle still with the issue of how Christians can neglect Scripture. I guess I'll die with that unanswered.
Nor does he teach Theology.
[He just went through Philippians ; he did NOT teach the Incarnation! He did not explain huparchon,morphe or kenotic Christology or define kenao by the participal 'took'; he did not reference Chalcedon ; he did not contrast Word-Man Christology with Word- Flesh, he did not discuss whether Wallace or Burke are right or wrong on relational subordination among the Persons in God in Phil 2,-God is the Boss of God- he did not reference Hoover's Harvard work on harpagmon! AND SO FORTH]
It is all application. It is all how to live. It is never what to believe.
The discussion in this forum is not relevant to our pastor despite him taking his MDiv from Western which requires languages.
Each sermon of his has an outline which congreants fill out off the power point screen like:
GOD'S LOVE, JOHN 3:16
1. God loved the ______________ ("world" appears on the screen and parishoners write that word in the blank. (that IS typical! I am NOT exaggerating!)
They feel they have learned!
Isn't that clever? Isn't it nice they learn so much?
In contrast, I now am supervising a PhD thesis (my first) on how Barth influenced Hauerwas to consider theology the basis of ethics.
But in our church it is not. Ethics is all. There is no Theology unless it is Sunday School.
I get so discouraged. This month I am 70. I wrestle still with the issue of how Christians can neglect Scripture. I guess I'll die with that unanswered.
Last edited by a moderator:
That will happen until people get tired of sugar water.
Quote from Whowillgo: "the most knowledgeable man I have ever heard from the pulpit had dropped out of school in the 9th grade."
Apparently he knew more about God; than Religion being taught by man.
Christ: God's way in trying to reach Man
vs
Religion: Man's way in trying to reach God
Apparently he knew more about God; than Religion being taught by man.
Christ: God's way in trying to reach Man
vs
Religion: Man's way in trying to reach God
James 1:26-27, "If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man's religion is worthless. Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world."
To me a pastor needs at least a working knowledge of Greek. By working, I mean enough to read his Greek NT for a cursory reading even though he doesn't know it well enough to read it devotionally. He should know it well enough to keep the commentators he reads honest. If business men around the world can learn enough English to read the Wall Street Journal (with the help of a dictionary if need be) then a preacher can learn NT Greek to the level I described above.
Absolutely.
To be blunt, I struggled with Hebrew and Greek and barely passed my Greek classes. I was better with Hebrew because the syntax is much simpler, but I am no Hebrew expert.
However, more than 15 years out of seminary, I can still use the language tools available and check things out for myself, even though I don't preach very often. I've resigned myself to the fact that I won't (until all things are made new) be able to casually read the Greek and Hebrew texts without aids like some of my friends, but I know enough about the languages to know if someone is pulling a fast one with the text and can go back and determine for myself who is correct if there is a question.
Language studies are my weakest area by far (my small hometown blue collar school district completely failed us when it came to teaching us grammar, so I have never been comfortable with the expanded syntax of Greek), but if I can achieve a very modest level of competence, then anyone of average intelligence can get at least to my level with a small amount of time and effort.
Bob Alkire
New Member
In school when I went or where I went, the school pushed Hebrew more than Greek. But to get out of seminary one had to have both and many took a full course in Arabic. The language professors pushed the importance of the study.
It must have been 6 to 7 years after I was out of school doing some work with the Air Force folks in San Antonio. We were having Bible and doctrine study with them and came across a man in Houston that taught in church right out of the Greek and Hebrew. His name was BobThieme, Jr., he was way different. Somethings he was very good on and something I just got lost. One can do a lot of good and bad reading on him, colonel Bob Thieme, Jr.
Some of the church works that have caught my eye or God used greatly, I don't think most of their pastors had any Hebrew or Greek, but God used them greatly. Some times I think we push school and seminary to keep professors working, part of that is tongue in cheek and part is how I see it.
However any education used to the glory of God, will be a mighty work in God's eyes or that is how I see it.
I came across one of his listeners/followers and the heresy he taught caused many problems in one of the churches I pastored. While he may sound impressive that if you listen to him long enough you will quickly find some strange teachings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bro K View Post
Quote from Whowillgo: "the most knowledgeable man I have ever heard from the pulpit had dropped out of school in the 9th grade."
Apparently he knew more about God; than Religion being taught by man.
Christ: God's way in trying to reach Man
vs
Religion: Man's way in trying to reach God
James 1:26-27, "If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man's religion is worthless. Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world."
gb93433. How does this verse relate to my above response? Thanks
Originally Posted by Bro K View Post
Quote from Whowillgo: "the most knowledgeable man I have ever heard from the pulpit had dropped out of school in the 9th grade."
Apparently he knew more about God; than Religion being taught by man.
Christ: God's way in trying to reach Man
vs
Religion: Man's way in trying to reach God
James 1:26-27, "If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man's religion is worthless. Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world."
gb93433. How does this verse relate to my above response? Thanks
Scripture uses the word religion and it is not just in the way you used it. Scripture differentiates between false religion and real religion. Real religion is Christianity and it is not man's religion. Its origin is in God.
Understood. Putting your statement and the verse on the same post would have been helpful.
I am completely with you. The Church should be the main source of exegesis and theology. And those in the pulpit should be adequately trained to do those things.
If this isn't coming from the pulpit, there is NO pulpit.
A retired pastor lamented to me recently that his pastor bragged from the pulpit that he didn't "believe no doctrine" and "wasn't gonna preach no doctrine" from that pulpit. Problem is, he just did. He just said something about Bibliology, theology proper, pneumatology, soteriology, sanctification, anthropology, and ecclesiology. All with one pathetic swoop.
My favorite is when preachers (if you wanna call them that) say that they don't preach doctrine, they preach the Bible. Right. Kinda like saying I'm going to have a beverage but it won't be liquid
God help us. God forgive us. God restore us. God save us.
Bob Alkire
New Member
So true. Much of what he teaches is some of the best I've ever heard and some of it isn't. DTS if I'm correct didn't want folks from his church in school there do to all the trouble they caused.
All isn't bad about him, again if I recall correctly, before he was put down by the school, he got Chuck Swindoll in there with out an undergraduate degree. I'm not that big on Chuck, but I have seen how God has used him.