Why Pray, Arminian?

[Luke2427]

The Calvinist believes that prayer is useful. We pray because God commands us to. God DOES answer our prayer. He ordains that we should pray and he ordains that he will answer our prayers.

By so doing God is able to both be good to us by answering our prayers and glorify his goodness in showing himself to be a prayer answering God.

This includes praying for the conversion of sinners.


Now, in your system as an Arminian or "non-reformed", why pray for the salvation of sinners?

God WILL not override their free will. AND God WILL not draw one more than the other. AND God is ALREADY doing ALL that he can to save EVERYONE.

What good is your prayer?

 

[Jarthur001]

The Calvinist believes that prayer is useful. We pray because God commands us to. God DOES answer our prayer. He ordains that we should pray and he ordains that he will answer our prayers.

By so doing God is able to both be good to us by answering our prayers and glorify his goodness in showing himself to be a prayer answering God.

This includes praying for the conversion of sinners.


Now, in your system as an Arminian or "non-reformed", why pray for the salvation of sinners?

God WILL not override their free will. AND God WILL not draw one more than the other. AND God is ALREADY doing ALL that he can to save EVERYONE.

What good is your prayer?

Indeed.

I have said this many times. In prayer we are asking God to step in and SAVE a sinner. This is against mans will. Therefore prayers belong only to a God that can DO THIS VERY THING.

 

[MB]

Indeed.

I have said this many times. In prayer we are asking God to step in and SAVE a sinner. This is against mans will. Therefore prayers belong only to a God that can DO THIS VERY THING.

When I pray for a lost person to be saved I never ask God to save them against there wills, but according to His will. His will would never be to save someone who doesn't want to be saved.
MB

 

[Luke2427]

When I pray for a lost person to be saved I never ask God to save them against there wills, but according to His will.

Calvinism.

His will would never be to save someone who doesn't want to be saved.
MB

Then who can be saved?

Do you expect God is going to draw someone more if you pray for them than he will those who are not being prayed for.

Isn't God already doing ALL that he can to save EVERYBODY?

 

[Don]

Isn't God already doing ALL that he can to save EVERYBODY?

God already did everything He needed to.

No man can know who will be saved. The Calvinist prays for someone's salvation, believing that God will answer the prayer and force someone to accept Him as their Lord and savior. The Arminian prays for someone's salvation hoping that the seed will take root, rather than be wasted upon rocky ground or among the thorns.

We don't pray that God overrides free will, but that He draws them. (In James, we read: draw nearer unto God, and He will draw nearer to you)

And we pray that if the individual is not going to be saved, that the situation will be worked in His will, in His way, that His glory may be seen.

 

[matt wade]

We pray because we love God and it pleases Him that we pray. You pray because you are forced to. You make no decisions in your life, so if you are praying it is because God forced you to pray.

I tell you what, I sure enjoy it when my kids talk to me because they want to. It isn't as enjoyable when I force them to talk to me.

 

[GBC Pastor]

We pray because God commands us to.

I would imagine the Arminian prays for exactly the same reason.

 

[Luke2427]

God already did everything He needed to.

Agreed.

No man can know who will be saved.

Agreed.

The Calvinist prays for someone's salvation, believing that God will answer the prayer and force someone to accept Him as their Lord and savior.

Close. Force is not necessary. God makes them willing.

When the Canaanites hardened their hearts against God
And grieved Him because of their sin,
God sent along hornets to bring them to time,
And help His own people to win.

The hornets persuaded them that it was best,
To go quickly, and not to go slow;
God did not compel them to go 'gainst their will,
But He just made them willing to go.

Chorus

He does not compel us to go, No! No!
He does not compel us to go.
He does not compel us to go 'gainst our will
But He just makes us willing to go.

If a nest of live hornets were brought to this room
And the creatures allowed to go free,
You would not need urgings to make yourself scarce,
You'd want to get out, don't you see.
They would not lay hold and by force of their strength
Throw you out of the window, Oh No,!
They would not compel you' to go 'gainst your will,
But they'd just make you willing to go.

Chorus

When Jonah was sent to the work of the Lord,
The outlook was not very bright;
He never had done such a hard thing before,
So he backed and ran off from the fight.
But God sent a big fish to swallow him up,
The story I'm sure you all know;
He did not compel him to go 'gainst his will,
But He just made him willing to go.

Chorus

When Moses was sent to lead Israel out,
To Canaan's rich fruit-bearing land.
Resisting His Spirit they worshiped a calf,
But refused to obey God's Command.
God did not compel them to go to the land,
Which with wine, milk, and honey did flow,
But fed them on manna for forty long years,
'Till He got them all ready to go.

Chorus

When Balaam was sent to the Moabite king,
And wanted things run his own way,
His mule, ever faithful, spoke at the right time,
Made him willing God's Will to obey.
God can use any man, since He used Balaam's mule,
For He is Almighty you know;
He does not compel us to go 'gainst our will
But He just makes us willing to go.

Read more: http://www.city-data.com/forum/chris...#ixzz19ifpau62

The Arminian prays for someone's salvation hoping that the seed will take root, rather than be wasted upon rocky ground or among the thorns.

Why pray? Is not God ALREADY doing ALL that he CAN to save EVERYBODY?

Will God draw the one you pray for more than someone else?

Isn't that unfair in your system?

Doesn't God have to draw ALL men EQUALLY in order to be just?

We don't pray that God overrides free will, but that He draws them. (In James, we read: draw nearer unto God, and He will draw nearer to you)

Will he do this? Will he draw them more than someone else?

 

[Luke2427]

We pray because we love God and it pleases Him that we pray. You pray because you are forced to. You make no decisions in your life, so if you are praying it is because God forced you to pray.

I tell you what, I sure enjoy it when my kids talk to me because they want to. It isn't as enjoyable when I force them to talk to me.

No force.


When the Canaanites hardened their hearts against God
And grieved Him because of their sin,
God sent along hornets to bring them to time,
And help His own people to win.

The hornets persuaded them that it was best,
To go quickly, and not to go slow;
God did not compel them to go 'gainst their will,
But He just made them willing to go.

Chorus

He does not compel us to go, No! No!
He does not compel us to go.
He does not compel us to go 'gainst our will
But He just makes us willing to go.

If a nest of live hornets were brought to this room
And the creatures allowed to go free,
You would not need urgings to make yourself scarce,
You'd want to get out, don't you see.
They would not lay hold and by force of their strength
Throw you out of the window, Oh No,!
They would not compel you' to go 'gainst your will,
But they'd just make you willing to go.

Chorus

When Jonah was sent to the work of the Lord,
The outlook was not very bright;
He never had done such a hard thing before,
So he backed and ran off from the fight.
But God sent a big fish to swallow him up,
The story I'm sure you all know;
He did not compel him to go 'gainst his will,
But He just made him willing to go.

Chorus

When Moses was sent to lead Israel out,
To Canaan's rich fruit-bearing land.
Resisting His Spirit they worshiped a calf,
But refused to obey God's Command.
God did not compel them to go to the land,
Which with wine, milk, and honey did flow,
But fed them on manna for forty long years,
'Till He got them all ready to go.

Chorus

When Balaam was sent to the Moabite king,
And wanted things run his own way,
His mule, ever faithful, spoke at the right time,
Made him willing God's Will to obey.
God can use any man, since He used Balaam's mule,
For He is Almighty you know;
He does not compel us to go 'gainst our will
But He just makes us willing to go.

Read more: http://www.city-data.com/forum/chri...lieve-moses-israel-worship.html#ixzz19ifpau62

 

[The Archangel]

We pray because we love God and it pleases Him that we pray. You pray because you are forced to. You make no decisions in your life, so if you are praying it is because God forced you to pray.

I tell you what, I sure enjoy it when my kids talk to me because they want to. It isn't as enjoyable when I force them to talk to me.

This is a misrepresentation of the Reformed position. We pray because we want to. The "want" comes from our new nature. We are also commanded to pray. As with most commands in scripture the "want" and the command to do __________ are not at odds. The command is there to remind us to do what God commands even when we don't feel like it.

The Archangel

 

[GBC Pastor]

Resisting His Spirit they worshiped a calf,
But refused to obey God's Command.

Uh Oh! That sounds Arminian to me.

 

[Luke2427]

Uh Oh! That sounds Arminian to me.

Then you don't understand Calvinism.

 

[GBC Pastor]

Then you don't understand Calvinism.

Well, by all means, enlighten me!

 

[Luke2427]

Well, by all means, enlighten me!

No Calvinist believes that man CANNOT resist the grace of God or the Holy Spirit.

Every Calvinist I have ever met or read after or known of believes that ALL men DO resist the grace of God and the Holy Spirit right up until God regenerates them.

This is the problem on Baptistboard. We Calvinist are constantly arguing against people who know very little if anything at all about Calvinism.

NNE who knows much at all about Calvinism would have made the remark that you made.

 

[matt wade]

This is a misrepresentation of the Reformed position. We pray because we want to. The "want" comes from our new nature. We are also commanded to pray. As with most commands in scripture the "want" and the command to do __________ are not at odds. The command is there to remind us to do what God commands even when we don't feel like it.

The Archangel

You can't have it both ways. Calvinists say that man has absolutely no choice in whether he is saved or not. If man has no choice in whether he is saved, then he has no choice in whether he prays. If you say he has choice about prayer, then you are a hypocrite when you say he doesn't have a choice about salvation.

 

[Luke2427]

You can't have it both ways. Calvinists say that man has absolutely no choice in whether he is saved or not. If man has no choice in whether he is saved, then he has no choice in whether he prays. If you say he has choice about prayer, then you are a hypocrite when you say he doesn't have a choice about salvation.

Calvinists DO believe men have choices- choices for salvation and everything else.

Men choose what they most want to do at any given moment.

 

[matt wade]

Calvinists DO believe men have choices- choices for salvation and everything else.

Men choose what they most want to do at any given moment.

Why do you insist on trickery of words Luke? Frankly, it's dishonest.

 

[Luke2427]

Why do you insist on trickery of words Luke? Frankly, it's dishonest.

Frankly you don't know what you are talking about.

You don't know what Calvinists believe. You aregue against false caricatures of Calvinism and you get frustrated when Calvinists correct your error about their doctrine.

ALL CALVINISTS BELIEVE THAT MEN HAVE CHOICES AND MAKE THEM EVERY HOUR.

There is no trickery here. No dishonesty.

You just don't know enough about the subject to be able to tell that.

 

[glfredrick]

When I pray for a lost person to be saved I never ask God to save them against there wills, but according to His will. His will would never be to save someone who doesn't want to be saved.
MB

This is a double-minded statement!

Which is it? God's will or man's will? You have both!

 

[Luke2427]

The Calvinist believes that prayer is useful. We pray because God commands us to. God DOES answer our prayer. He ordains that we should pray and he ordains that he will answer our prayers.

By so doing God is able to both be good to us by answering our prayers and glorify his goodness in showing himself to be a prayer answering God.

This includes praying for the conversion of sinners.


Now, in your system as an Arminian or "non-reformed", why pray for the salvation of sinners?

God WILL not override their free will. AND God WILL not draw one more than the other. AND God is ALREADY doing ALL that he can to save EVERYONE.

What good is your prayer?

No nonreformed people are answering these questions.