Why Purgatory is not in the Bible - it does not exist

[convicted1]

I guess the 'compartment theory' just got exposed for being false, too....

 

[robustheologian]

Romans 6:23--"The wages of sin is death..."
The consequence of all sin is death. Whether it be a lie or murder, sin leads to death and is the cause of exclusion from heaven.

Of course this is true. Just informing you that the concept of mortal and venial sin is in the Bible.

 

[lakeside]

In Matthew 5:24-25, Jesus is even more explicit about Purgatory.

Make friends quickly with your accuser, while you are going with him to court, lest your accuser hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you be put in prison; truly I say to you, you will never get out till you have paid the last penny (Matthew 5:25-26).

Tell me this, we know about Heaven and Hell, so tell me from the Holy Bible the other name for God's "prison" ?

McCree, you wrote: " When the RCC has made it clear, that the church and its tradition trumps scripture. " Nonsense, both are equal, the Apostolic Teaching is direct Teaching from Jesus. Both Apostolic Teaching and the Holy Scriptures are necessary for understanding the 'Fullness of the Christian " Jesus was a Jew and He taught as a Jew to His mostly Jewish disciples.

 

[lakeside]

Even Judaism believe in a "purge" before entering paradise, Jesus being an Orthodox Jew believed and practiced this belief that the soul needs purification before entering Paradise, a necessary purging process[ Purgatory ] His new Church was a continuation of His old Jewish religion, thus a completion of Judaism. Jesus continued in many of His Jewish Traditions, Garb [ clothing ] and Rituals. His new Christian Faith included a place of cleansing as found in the OT Books , that is "ALL" the Books.

Judaism does have a concept of reward and punishment in the afterlife. However, since words we use bring to mind certain images, particularly “Heaven” and “Hell,” it is better to use the Jewish terminology which comes without the baggage.
When someone dies, the disembodied soul leaves this sensory world and enters “Gan Eden,” the spiritual Garden of Eden (a.k.a. “Heaven”). In the Garden of Eden, the soul enjoys the “rays of the Divine Presence,” a purely spiritual enjoyment dependent on the Torah learning and good deeds done while in a body. Every year on the yahrtzeit, the day of passing, the soul ascends to another level closer to G-d. This gives it tremendous pleasure.


In order to restore the level of purity the soul had possessed before entering the physical world, it must undergo a degree of refinement commensurate to the degree which the body may have indulged itself
Before entering the Garden of Eden, though, a soul must be in a state of spiritual excellence, for it cannot enjoy the Divine Presence to the fullest degree with the pleasures and coarseness of our physical world still engraved on it. These would give the soul poor “reception” of divine radiance, and must be removed.

If a person sinned in this lifetime, as most of us do, then, to continue the radio analogy, we have serious interference. In order to restore the level of purity the soul had possessed before entering the physical world, it must undergo a degree of refinement commensurate to the degree which the body may have indulged itself. This means there is quite a bit of cleaning to be done. This cleaning process hurts, but is a spiritual and mental process designed not for retribution, but to allow one to truly enjoy his/her reward in Gan Eden.

This cleaning process is called “Gehinom,” or, in the vernacular, “Hell.”

 

[Yeshua1]

If someone is saved, and they commit a venial sin after being saved, and they do not repent or confess that sin, do you contend that if they died immediately after committing that sin, they would not need to be cleansed of that sin before entering Heaven?

You will probably avoid answering/can't answer because it would be opening the door to Purgatory if you answered in the negative. But, if you answer in the affirmative, then you are saying one can get into Heaven with the stain of unrepented sin on their soul - which contradicts the Bible.

The Church of rome themselves admit that this doctrine is NOT found any where in the normal canon, but has to be found in Apocraph books, which were NOT inspired by god!

And IF someone is really saved, and that the Holy Spirit has sealed and resides in them, then NO SIN would block them going right to heaven when they died, regardless either a venial or mortal one, as ANY sin gets a person to Hell, and thank god that Kesus death paid for ALL my sins, and that unconfessed sin does not affect a relationship with god, but our fellowship with him..

That being said, always best to confess/repent/forsale all known sin...

 

[robustheologian]

The Church of rome themselves admit that this doctrine is NOT found any where in the normal canon

And they are documented as saying the idea of purgatory is nowhere to be found in the traditional canon.

 

[DHK]

Even Judaism believe in a "purge" before entering paradise, Jesus being an Orthodox Jew believed and practiced this belief that the soul needs purification before entering Paradise, a necessary purging process[ Purgatory ] His new Church was a continuation of His old Jewish religion, thus a completion of Judaism. Jesus continued in many of His Jewish Traditions, Garb [ clothing ] and Rituals. His new Christian Faith included a place of cleansing as found in the OT Books , that is "ALL" the Books.

Judaism is now a false religion. They rejected Christ and nailed him to a tree.
John 1:11 says: "He came to his own but his own received him not."
Jesus was a Rabbi. He was not an "Orthodox Jew." They considered him a rebel. He was not a part of the Sanhedrin. The "orthodox Jews" sought to kill him and eventually did. If he was "orthodox" they never would have killed him. Jesus did not believe the myths that they believed in, rather he condemned them:

Mat 15:3-9
(3) But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
(4) For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
(5) But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;
(6) And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
(7) Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
(8) This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
(9) But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
--He summed it up well. Just like the RCC does, these Jews taught the commandments of men (tradition) instead of the doctrine of God (the Word of God). He condemned them for doing so.

Judaism does have a concept of reward and punishment in the afterlife. However, since words we use bring to mind certain images, particularly “Heaven” and “Hell,” it is better to use the Jewish terminology which comes without the baggage.

Why not use Hindu mythology. It existed before Christianity as well.

When someone dies, the disembodied soul leaves this sensory world and enters “Gan Eden,” the spiritual Garden of Eden (a.k.a. “Heaven”). In the Garden of Eden, the soul enjoys the “rays of the Divine Presence,” a purely spiritual enjoyment dependent on the Torah learning and good deeds done while in a body. Every year on the yahrtzeit, the day of passing, the soul ascends to another level closer to G-d. This gives it tremendous pleasure.

This is myth. There are many sources for myth. These myths are as reliable as the Hindu Vedas or the Sikh Granth. Only the 66 books of the Bible are the "inspired Word of God," and that is what we abide by."

In order to restore the level of purity the soul had possessed before entering the physical world, it must undergo a degree of refinement commensurate to the degree which the body may have indulged itself
Before entering the Garden of Eden, though, a soul must be in a state of spiritual excellence, for it cannot enjoy the Divine Presence to the fullest degree with the pleasures and coarseness of our physical world still engraved on it. These would give the soul poor “reception” of divine radiance, and must be removed.

And Mary had a little lamb. Jack climbed a beanstock. Rapunzel let down her golden hair. Four and twenty blackbirds were baked in a pie.
You believe it all don't you??
Myths and fairy tales put forth by the RCC and others unsubstantiated by the Word of God. Why don't you just become a Hindu? It would be a better fit. They also believe in baptismal regeneration and they have even more fables to believe in.

If a person sinned in this lifetime, as most of us do, then, to continue the radio analogy, we have serious interference. In order to restore the level of purity the soul had possessed before entering the physical world, it must undergo a degree of refinement commensurate to the degree which the body may have indulged itself. This means there is quite a bit of cleaning to be done. This cleaning process hurts, but is a spiritual and mental process designed not for retribution, but to allow one to truly enjoy his/her reward in Gan Eden.

Why all the fables? Why so gullible?

This cleaning process is called “Gehinom,” or, in the vernacular, “Hell.”

Here is what you need to hear:
Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony:
if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

 

[Revmitchell]

So, Jesus said to the thief on the cross, “TODAY thou shalt be with me in Paradise,” and you apparently interpret Paradise as being Heaven and TODAY as being the end of that 24–hour calendar day they were in, right? Well then, let me ask you a question about that, how do you reconcile that statement of Jesus on the cross with His statement to Mary Magdalene two days later when He tells her that He has not yet ascended to the Father? In other words, how could the thief on the cross be with Jesus in Paradise “TODAY,” when two days later Jesus still hadn’t made it to Paradise?

This is a very good question and very reasonable. What is not reasonable is that it has to lead to purgatory. That is a logical fallacy called question begging.

 

[annsni]

In Matthew 5:24-25, Jesus is even more explicit about Purgatory.

Make friends quickly with your accuser, while you are going with him to court, lest your accuser hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you be put in prison; truly I say to you, you will never get out till you have paid the last penny (Matthew 5:25-26).

Tell me this, we know about Heaven and Hell, so tell me from the Holy Bible the other name for God's "prison" ?

Let's look at the ENTIRE passage:

“You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire. 23 So if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar and go. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. 25 Come to terms quickly with your accuser while you are going with him to court, lest your accuser hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you be put in prison. 26 Truly, I say to you, you will never get out until you have paid the last penny.

How do you get that this is speaking of heaven or purgatory?

 

[lakeside]

Ann, we still must remember the Book of Rev. says nothing unclean gets into heaven Matt. 12:32 – Jesus says, “And anyone who says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but no one who speaks against the Holy Spirit will be forgiven either in this world or in the next.” Jesus thus clearly provides that there is forgiveness after death. The phrase “in the next” (from the Greek “en to mellonti”) generally refers to the afterlife (see, for example, Mark 10.30; Luke 18.30; 20.34-35; Eph. 1.21 for similar language). Forgiveness is not necessary in heaven, and there is no forgiveness in hell. This proves that there is another state after death, and the Church for 2,000 years has called this state purgatory.

Luke 12:47-48 - when the Master comes (at the end of time), some will receive light or heavy beatings but will live. This state is not heaven or hell, because in heaven there are no beatings, and in hell we will no longer live with the Master.

 

[Yeshua1]

And they are documented as saying the idea of purgatory is nowhere to be found in the traditional canon.

The very concept of that being an actual state saints depart to after physical death refutes the blood of jesus/His death as full payment for sins, and they are those who trample underfoot the precious blood of Christ, as warned about in hebrews!

They also do that every Sunday when that Mass is done!

 

[Revmitchell]

Ann, we still must remember the Book of Rev. says nothing unclean gets into heaven Matt. 12:32 – Jesus says, “And anyone who says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but no one who speaks against the Holy Spirit will be forgiven either in this world or in the next.” Jesus thus clearly provides that there is forgiveness after death. The phrase “in the next” (from the Greek “en to mellonti”) generally refers to the afterlife (see, for example, Mark 10.30; Luke 18.30; 20.34-35; Eph. 1.21 for similar language). Forgiveness is not necessary in heaven, and there is no forgiveness in hell. This proves that there is another state after death, and the Church for 2,000 years has called this state purgatory.

Luke 12:47-48 - when the Master comes (at the end of time), some will receive light or heavy beatings but will live. This state is not heaven or hell, because in heaven there are no beatings, and in hell we will no longer live with the Master.

So you meander around in vagueness to prove the absolute existence of something like purgatory?

 

[lakeside]

DHK. Fables you call it, what about the Virgin Birth or all the miracles, the assumption of Jesus and so on; of course I believe those fables and of course they are True. If somebody was to read the Bible without instruction they would say that it is all a fable, the whole Bible is a fable they would say; but of course you and I know the difference, we believe it is all true.

Orthodox Christianity Faith is the completion of the Jewish religion. Had all of the Jews of Jesus’ time accepted him as the Messiah and entered the Church, there would have continued to be one true religion. But because Jesus of Nazareth was not accepted as the Messiah by the majority of the Jews of his time, a split occurred. Pre-Christian Judaism was the true religion; post-Christian Judaism is an incomplete religion because it lacks recognition of the Messiah it anticipates. If all the Jews back then during Jesus' time would have accepted Him as the Messiah and had entered into Christ's Church, there would have been a one continuous true Apostolic Universal meaning Catholic Faith [ until the protesters upset the pot ] But because Jesus was not accepted [ as some reject His One True Church ] as the Messiah by most of the Jews a split occurred. Before Jesus Judaism was the true religion after Jesus Judaism is an incomplete religion because it lacks the Messiah it anticipates

 

[lakeside]

Revmitchell, you still have not answer to those verses I show. What say you ?

 

[Walter]

Luke 23:43 – As a Baptist, I would argue that because Jesus sent the thief crucified next to Jesus right to heaven, there can be no purgatory. Also, because the term is found nowhere in the Bible (but then neither is Incarnation or Trinity). I remember a Catholic explaining that when Jesus uses the word "paradise,” He wasn't talking about heaven. Paradise comes from the Hebrew "sheol," which meant the place of the 'righteous dead'. That is where the dead remained but were headed eventually to Heaven at our Lord's resurrection. Also, there is not punctuation in the original writing of this. When Jesus said to the thief “I say to you today you will be with me in paradise” does not mean there was a comma after the first word “you.” So, Jesus could have been saying, 'I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise. Remember, even if the thief did go straight to Heaven it does not disprove purgatory anybody who might be fully sanctified in this life– maybe by the thiefs bloody and repentant death – it is possible that he would have been ready for Heaven. Catholics believe that without holiness no one will see the Lord. We see Purgatory as a need for final sanctification to have holiness before God, this is ongoing in our walk with the Lord here on earth and, if that does not happen during our time here then there is a transitional state of purgatory.


Rev. 21:27 says that nothing un-clean is admitted to Heaven. I was told that this word 'un-clean (the greek word koinon) means a 'spiritual corruption'. Any inclination toward sin would be un-clean and the need for purification. The atonement by Jesus on the cross existence of Purgatory shows me how merciful God really is. Some on the board will say, 'wasn't Jesus' sacrifice enough? Christ has totally redeemed, or purchased back, that which was lost' It is absolutely true that Christ accomplished all of our salvation for us on the cross. But that does not settle the question of how this redemption is applied to us.

Also, keep in mind that if this was an 'invention' of the Catholic Church, why does ecclesiastical history record no protest against it?

Zenas once said: 'By qualifing any forgiveness of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, Jesus was suggesting that certain sins can be forgiven in the age to come. So where would this take place? Certainly not in Heaven and not in Hell. It must be Purgatory where this after-death forgiveness takes place'.

 

[annsni]

Ann, we still must remember the Book of Rev. says nothing unclean gets into heaven Matt. 12:32 – Jesus says, “And anyone who says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but no one who speaks against the Holy Spirit will be forgiven either in this world or in the next.” Jesus thus clearly provides that there is forgiveness after death. The phrase “in the next” (from the Greek “en to mellonti”) generally refers to the afterlife (see, for example, Mark 10.30; Luke 18.30; 20.34-35; Eph. 1.21 for similar language). Forgiveness is not necessary in heaven, and there is no forgiveness in hell. This proves that there is another state after death, and the Church for 2,000 years has called this state purgatory.

Luke 12:47-48 - when the Master comes (at the end of time), some will receive light or heavy beatings but will live. This state is not heaven or hell, because in heaven there are no beatings, and in hell we will no longer live with the Master.

Titus 3:4-6 "But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, 5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,"

We are not saved because we atoned for our sins. HE saved us by the washing of regeneration. Yes, nothing unclean will be in heaven and we know that we are clean because of the washing of the Holy Spirit. Praise be to God!

 

[Walter]

The very concept of that being an actual state saints depart to after physical death refutes the blood of jesus/His death as full payment for sins, and they are those who trample underfoot the precious blood of Christ, as warned about in hebrews!

They also do that every Sunday when that Mass is done!

The doctrine of Purgatory in no way denies the efficacy of Christ's shed blood on the cross for our sins. That is simply mis-representing what the Church teaches. It is YOUR conclusion based on your pre-conceived ideas of what catholicism is.

St. Augustine, one of the greatest doctors of the Church, said the doctrine of Purgatory "has been received from the Fathers and it is observed by the Universal Church.'' True, the word "Purgatory'' does not appear in the Bible, but a place where lesser sins are purged away and the soul is saved "yet so as by fire,'' is mentioned. (1 Cor. 3:15). Also, the Bible distinguishes between those who enter Heaven straightaway, calling them "the church of the firstborn'' (Heb. 12:23), and those who enter after having undergone a purgation, calling them "the spirits of the just made perfect.'' (Heb. 12:23). Christ Himself stated: "Amen I say to thee, thou shalt not go out from thence till thou repay the last farthing.'' (Matt. 5 :26).

 

[lakeside]

Very good Walter, may I add something that I just thought of, that that verse in Book of Rev was written after the Cross, so why would it say more cleansing needed if soul is still unclean to enter Heaven, if His sacrifice on cross is all that is necessary?

 

[annsni]

The doctrine of Purgatory in no way denies the efficacy of Christ's shed blood on the cross for our sins. That is simply mis-representing what the Church teaches. It is YOUR conclusion based on your pre-conceived ideas of what catholicism is.

Actually, it does deny the efficacy of Christ's shed blood. If that is not sufficient to cleanse us, then what good is it?

St. Augustine, one of the greatest doctors of the Church, said the doctrine of Purgatory "has been received from the Fathers and it is observed by the Universal Church.''

You know, it's interesting. I like to see the original statement when I see a partial sentence as a quote from someone because as we know in Bible study, context is key. But what is so interesting with this statement, in a google search of St. Augustine and the quote, all I can see is people quoting it and no reference anywhere to where this comes from. Can you please point me to a link where I can see the entirety of the statement from St. Augustine?

True, the word "Purgatory'' does not appear in the Bible, but a place where lesser sins are purged away and the soul is saved "yet so as by fire,'' is mentioned. (1 Cor. 3:15). Also, the Bible distinguishes between those who enter Heaven straightaway, calling them "the church of the firstborn'' (Heb. 12:23), and those who enter after having undergone a purgation, calling them "the spirits of the just made perfect.'' (Heb. 12:23). Christ Himself stated: "Amen I say to thee, thou shalt not go out from thence till thou repay the last farthing.'' (Matt. 5 :26).

I see lots of verses taken out of context and it's easy to make up a doctrine doing that. Yet, let's see what the verses are:

1 Corinthians 3:15:

According to the grace of God given to me, like a skilled master builder I laid a foundation, and someone else is building upon it. Let each one take care how he builds upon it. 11 For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw— 13 each one's work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. 14 If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

16 Do you not know that you are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in you? 17 If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him. For God's temple is holy, and you are that temple.

18 Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you thinks that he is wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise. 19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God. For it is written, “He catches the wise in their craftiness,” 20 and again, “The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are futile.” 21 So let no one boast in men. For all things are yours, 22 whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world or life or death or the present or the future—all are yours, 23 and you are Christ's, and Christ is God's.

I do not see here supported anywhere that the work will be burned up after death in a place called purgatory. We see in verse 22 and 23 "the world or life or death or the present or the future...you are Christ's!!" Praise God for HIS faithfulness!

Hebrews 12 says:

For you have not come to what may be touched, a blazing fire and darkness and gloom and a tempest 19 and the sound of a trumpet and a voice whose words made the hearers beg that no further messages be spoken to them. 20 For they could not endure the order that was given, “If even a beast touches the mountain, it shall be stoned.” 21 Indeed, so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, “I tremble with fear.” 22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, 23 and to the assembly[a] of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

I don't know where you get that the firstborn were the ones who went straight to heaven and the spirits of the righteous made perfect were those who went to purgatory because we see no such separation here. We know what first fruits are in Scripture and in this case, these are the believers of old. Additionally, we see Jesus - the mediator of a new covenant and His blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel. Do we see in the Old Testament any other practices to make oneself clean once a sacrifice is made? Christ's blood was sufficient to cleanse the sins of a sinner, period. There is no further sacrifice or penance needed.

 

[lakeside]

annsi, you asked: "Can you please point me to a link where I can see the entirety of the statement from St. Augustine?" Excuse me for butting in, I did find this on my storage site. I haven't found that statement by St. Augustine that you show, as of yet

"If the baptized person fulfills the obligations demanded of a Christian, he does well. If he does not--provided he keeps the faith, without which he would perish forever--no matter in what sin or impurity remains, he will be saved, as it were, by fire; as one who has built on the foundation, which is Christ, not gold, silver, and precious stones, but wood, hay straw, that is, not just and chasted works but wicked and unchaste works." Augustine, Faith and Works, 1:1 (A.D. 413).

"Now on what ground does this person pray that he may not be 'rebuked in indignation, nor chastened in hot displeasure"? He speaks as if he would say unto God, 'Since the things which I already suffer are many in number, I pray Thee let them suffice;' and he begins to enumerate them, by way of satisfying God; offering what he suffers now, that he may not have to suffer worse evils hereafter." Augustine, Exposition of the Psalms, 38(37):3 (A.D. 418).

"And it is not impossible that something of the same kind may take place even after this life. It is a matter that may be inquired into, and either ascertained or left doubtful, whether some believers shall pass through a kind of purgatorial fire, and in proportion as they have loved with more or less devotion the goods that perish, be less or more quickly delivered from it. This cannot, however, be the case of any of those of whom it is said, that they 'shall not inherit the kingdom of God,' unless after suitable repentance their sins be forgiven them. When I say 'suitable,' I mean that they are not to be unfruitful in almsgiving; for Holy Scripture lays so much stress on this virtue, that our Lord tells us beforehand, that He will ascribe no merit to those on His right hand but that they abound in it, and no defect to those on His left hand but their want of it, when He shall say to the former, "Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom," and to the latter, 'Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire.'" Augustine, Enchiridion, 69 (A.D. 421).

"During the time, moreover, which intervenes between a man's death and the final resurrection, the soul dwells in a hidden retreat, where it enjoys rest or suffers affliction just in proportion to the merit it has earned by the life which it led on earth." Augustine, Enchiridion, 1099 (A.D. 421).

"For our part, we recognize that even in this life some punishments are purgatorial,--not, indeed, to those whose life is none the better, but rather the worse for them, but to those who are constrained by them to amend their life. All other punishments, whether temporal or eternal, inflicted as they are on every one by divine providence, are sent either on account of past sins, or of sins presently allowed in the life, or to exercise and reveal a man's graces. They may be inflicted by the instrumentality of bad men and angels as well as of the good. For even if any one suffers some hurt through another's wickedness or mistake, the man indeed sins whose ignorance or injustice does the harm; but God, who by His just though hidden judgment permits it to be done, sins not. But temporary punishments are suffered by some in this life only, by others after death, by others both now and then; but all of them before that last and strictest judgment. But of those who suffer temporary punishments after death, all are not doomed to those everlasting pains which are to follow that judgment; for to some, as we have already said, what is not remitted in this world is remitted in the next, that is, they are not punished with the eternal punishment of the world to come." Augustine, City of God, 21:13 (A.D. 426).

"But since she has this certainty regarding no man, she prays for all her enemies who yet live in this world; and yet she is not heard in behalf of all. But she is heard in the case of those only who, though they oppose the Church, are yet predestinated to become her sons through her intercession...For some of the dead, indeed, the prayer of the Church or of pious individuals is heard; but it is for those who, having been regenerated in Christ, did not spend their life so wickedly that they can be judged unworthy of such compassion, nor so well that they can be considered to have no need of it. As also, after the resurrection, there will be some of the dead to whom, after they have endured the pains proper to the spirits of the dead, mercy shall be accorded, and acquittal from the punishment of the eternal fire. For were there not some whose sins, though not remitted in this life, shall be remitted in that which is to come, it could not be truly said, "They shall not be forgiven, neither in this world, neither in that which is to come.' But when the Judge of quick and dead has said, 'Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world,' and to those on the other side, 'Depart from me, ye cursed, into the eternal fire, which is prepared for the devil and his angels,' and 'These shall go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life,' it were excessively presumptuous to say that the punishment of any of those whom God has said shall go away into eternal punishment shall not be eternal, and so bring either despair or doubt upon the corresponding promise of life eternal." Augustine, City of God,2 1:24 (A.D. 426).