Why sermons?

[kyredneck]

Yes, I understand preaching to those that need saving.

No, you don't understand that salvation is not a 'one time event', it's an ongoing affair throughout the believer's life in this temporal realm. We need 'saving' quite often. We need to be fed healthful teaching.

21 For seeing that in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom knew not God, it was God`s good pleasure through the foolishness of the preaching to save them that believe. 1 Cor 1

"the preaching to save them that believe" i.e, the preaching is not to get them to believe so they can be saved, the preaching is to save them that believe.

YLT:
for the word of the cross to those indeed perishing is foolishness, and to us -- those being saved -- it is the power of God, 1 Cor 1:18

"us -- those being saved", it's an ongoing affair, NOT a 'one time event'.

Question:
Take heed to thyself, and to thy teaching. Continue in these things; for in doing this thou shalt save both thyself and them that hear thee. 1 Tim 4:16

When do you think Timothy and his church members were finally going to get saved if it's a 'one time event'?

Question:
Feed my lambs...tend my sheep...feed my sheep Jn 21:15-17

Take heed unto yourselves, and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit hath made you bishops, to feed the church of the Lord which he purchased with his own blood. Acts 20:28

How does a preacher feed God's flock?

 

[ChurchofChristguy]

Heck I never even offered my opinion yet and you’re telling me what I don’t understand. That’s interesting. But since you put it out there...

I disagree that we need saving quite often. We are saved but once, and forever. Certainly our journey is hopefully a progressive one of deeper faith, and certainly the assembly plays a part in that.

But Christ’s sacrifice was perfect - it doesn’t need to be re-used over and over again. We are forever and continuously made right in the sight of God but blood of Jesus.

My question was essentially, how would you feel about an assembly without a sermon? I wasn’t asking for a lecture - just discussion.

 

[MartyF]

The ability to watch and read very well done sermons online seems to reduce the need for sermons in every little church.

However, I have reversed my opinion on this. Even though some sermons may seem repetitive and bore some of the "smarter" people, it may still be beneficial to those who have not heard. And despite what people may think, most in the U.S. still don't know the gospel.

Nolte: New York Times Believes the 'Body of Christ' Is a Statue

Rejecting Asylum Claim, U.K. Quotes Bible to Say Christianity Is Not ‘Peaceful’

That being said, sometimes that is the only "Gospel" one hears. Most people tend to be rather dull and do need things repeated to them. So, some members may want to hear about simple gospel concepts again simply because it helps them to remember.

Believe it or not, this is not abnormal. So, yes, I believe a weekly sermon can be beneficial.

 

[Rockson]

An interesting thread but I don't think in most of the world of Christendom you'll see the set up changed, that is a number of songs, offering time, preaching time and one more song to close it up. Not that God doesn't require these things be done in a sense but the way in which they're set up could be wondered about. For instance what's wrong in having various meetings designated for certain things. You have a special speaker that they're there for only a day or so. You announce there won't be singing whatever meeting so the speaker can more fully present his teachings. Or some meetings you could actually have a music day. And even in music I think churches go off somewhat in what it's meant to be....worship.

What I mean is most of the songs are ones about God....not singing to God himself.

There is a place where songs about God are good and right to do. But really their purpose is to minister to people....you're inspiring the people to think about God a certain way. Nothing wrong with that in fact it's good and necessary .

But believers need to have songs where words like "You" or "You're" are sang directly to God. I've wondered about this much and wondered if the way even churches totally major nearly every song about God actually reveals something about how they envision things. Think of it this way if Jesus were to appear at the front of the church (and I know some say he wouldn't do so in this era) but if he did what would happen to every song being sung.

Wouldn't it be automatic that all the words would be changed instead of singing about God you sang to him? In other words instead of singing, "God is so good" you'd be singing "God you're so good!" Now if people in their hearts truly believed God was with them in the church BUT by his Spirit than why aren't the greatest number of songs to him instead of about him.

Now you need songs about him which are good but that music type is ministering to the people much of what like a sermon does. My wife and I in our daily worship time have about 30 songs which we've changed the wordings with YOU or YOU'RE. We don't sing all 30 of them every day but will touch on a few of them and not usually the whole song but a portion. So I think it's true. There can be different ways of doing things in churches which might more please the Lord.

 

[Reformed1689]

My question was essentially, how would you feel about an assembly without a sermon? I wasn’t asking for a lecture - just discussion.

Remember we are to not only preach salvation, we are also to teach everything Christ commands.

 

[Adonia]

When did the idea of a half-hour sermon every week come into being? Would the assembly be OK without a sermon? Let's say each week you had a testimony or two, some scripture readings from the saints, an open prayer so that anyone with a need from the saints could come to the mic.

Regardless of denomination, we have settled in to a pretty cookie cutter assembly. A few songs, a token prayer or two, a half hour sermon, closing song, closing prayer.

Are our assemblies effective for the edification of the saints?

The sermon seems to be the high point of the non-orthodox Christian service and no where in the Scriptures does it say that should be the case. Christian worship should be centered on the death and resurrection of Christ, i.e. the Holy Communion part. Only there do we find the source and summit of the Christian experience while at worship.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

When did the idea of a half-hour sermon every week come into being? Would the assembly be OK without a sermon? Let's say each week you had a testimony or two, some scripture readings from the saints, an open prayer so that anyone with a need from the saints could come to the mic.

Yeah, great! It wouldn't help anyone, but it might be fun, which, after all, is the sole purpose of church these days.

Regardless of denomination, we have settled in to a pretty cookie cutter assembly. A few songs, a token prayer or two, a half hour sermon, closing song, closing prayer.

Are our assemblies effective for the edification of the saints?

If that really is what goes on in your church -- 'a few songs, token prayers' -- I would get out as quickly as possible,
The sermon is the sine qua non of a church service. 'All Scripture is God-breathed and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good word.' THEREFORE
'I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ ...............preach the word!..............Convince, rebuke exhort with all longsuffering and patience.'
Why do we need to do that?
'For the time is coming when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers, and they will turn their ears away from the truth and be turned to idols' (2 Timothy 3:16-4:4).

That's why we need teaching and that's why preaching is a Biblical and Apostolic command.

 

[canadyjd]

Does the pastor need to be seminary trained?

Well, no. Scripture gives the qualifications for elders/pastors. Being seminary trained isn't among them, however, being "able to teach" assumes a well educated man.

Being well educated doesn't necessarily mean you are able to teach, but being uneducated in the Word of God will certainly lead to error.

Preaching the gospel is a commandment of God. You shouldn't assume everyone in the church is saved, even if they have been there a while.

 

[ChurchofChristguy]

Yeah, great! It wouldn't help anyone, but it might be fun, which, after all, is the sole purpose of church these days.

If that really is what goes on in your church -- 'a few songs, token prayers' -- I would get out as quickly as possible,
The sermon is the sine qua non of a church service. 'All Scripture is God-breathed and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good word.' THEREFORE
'I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ ...............preach the word!..............Convince, rebuke exhort with all longsuffering and patience.'
Why do we need to do that?
'For the time is coming when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers, and they will turn their ears away from the truth and be turned to idols' (2 Timothy 3:16-4:4).

That's why we need teaching and that's why preaching is a Biblical and Apostolic command.

Good points - thanks for the response.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

No, you don't understand that salvation is not a 'one time event', it's an ongoing affair throughout the believer's life in this temporal realm. We need 'saving' quite often. We need to be fed healthful teaching.

21 For seeing that in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom knew not God, it was God`s good pleasure through the foolishness of the preaching to save them that believe. 1 Cor 1

"the preaching to save them that believe" i.e, the preaching is not to get them to believe so they can be saved, the preaching is to save them that believe.

YLT:
for the word of the cross to those indeed perishing is foolishness, and to us -- those being saved -- it is the power of God, 1 Cor 1:18

"us -- those being saved", it's an ongoing affair, NOT a 'one time event'.

Question:
Take heed to thyself, and to thy teaching. Continue in these things; for in doing this thou shalt save both thyself and them that hear thee. 1 Tim 4:16

When do you think Timothy and his church members were finally going to get saved if it's a 'one time event'?

Question:
Feed my lambs...tend my sheep...feed my sheep Jn 21:15-17

Take heed unto yourselves, and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit hath made you bishops, to feed the church of the Lord which he purchased with his own blood. Acts 20:28

How does a preacher feed God's flock?

Well done!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Well, no. Scripture gives the qualifications for elders/pastors. Being seminary trained isn't among them, however, being "able to teach" assumes a well educated man.

Being well educated doesn't necessarily mean you are able to teach, but being uneducated in the Word of God will certainly lead to error.

Preaching the gospel is a commandment of God. You shouldn't assume everyone in the church is saved, even if they have been there a while.

Then what is a Baptist Church if not a gathering of the saved? How do you prove to the elders that you should be inducted into the church and baptized without being saved?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Remember we are to not only preach salvation, we are also to teach everything Christ commands.

Like foot washing for example?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

The sermon seems to be the high point of the non-orthodox Christian service and no where in the Scriptures does it say that should be the case. Christian worship should be centered on the death and resurrection of Christ, i.e. the Holy Communion part. Only there do we find the source and summit of the Christian experience while at worship.

And where do you fit in the Old Testament, the Sermon on the Mount, the Psalms, Paul’s teaching (Romans, Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians etc), James, Peter, John, Revelations? Is there any place for Genesis? How bout Isaiah, Job, Mica? I hope what you are saying is that the RCC indeed does teach the fullness of scripture leading to the sacrificial death and resurrection of our lord Jesus the Christ.

 

[canadyjd]

Then what is a Baptist Church if not a gathering of the saved? How do you prove to the elders that you should be inducted into the church and baptized without being saved?

People gather together for all kinds of reasons, as well as make professions of faith for all kinds of reasons that don't necessarily have to do with being saved.

It is not possible, imo, to prove salvation to anyone. If someone gives a credible profession of faith and seeks baptism and fellowship then the elders should accept that.

You shouldn't stop preaching and teaching the gospel just because someone makes a profession of faith and joins the church.

 

[canadyjd]

Peace to you

 

[HankD]

When did the idea of a half-hour sermon every week come into being? Would the assembly be OK without a sermon? Let's say each week you had a testimony or two, some scripture readings from the saints, an open prayer so that anyone with a need from the saints could come to the mic.

Regardless of denomination, we have settled in to a pretty cookie cutter assembly. A few songs, a token prayer or two, a half hour sermon, closing song, closing prayer.

Are our assemblies effective for the edification of the saints?

Why sermons?

We have it in the word:

2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

 

[ChurchofChristguy]

Why sermons?

We have it in the word:

2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

I think I have been misunderstood. I am not suggesting eliminating sermons from every assembly for all time.

 

[tyndale1946]

And where do you fit in the Old Testament, the Sermon on the Mount, the Psalms, Paul’s teaching (Romans, Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians etc), James, Peter, John, Revelations? Is there any place for Genesis? How bout Isaiah, Job, Mica? I hope what you are saying is that the RCC indeed does teach the fullness of scripture leading to the sacrificial death and resurrection of our lord Jesus the Christ.

You know there is an old saying you can catch more flies with honey than you can do with vinegar... So you are asking yourself what does that have to do with sermons?... I see sermons walking around every day... I see people doing the works of God... Are they in church?... I don't know, does it matter?... I'm not saying all are guilty, if the shoe fits wear it... You won't see goats doing sheep work and you won't see sheep doing goats work... Get the picture?... I think the biggest problem keeping people out of church is not because they don't believe in Jesus Christ and want to follow him but because they observe those who are not!... Like I say again if this doesn't fit your church, it doesn't apply to you... I agree with Kentucky, Salvation is everyday... Just because you hear a sermon in church doesn't mean your going to live the sermon you heard... Like I say some will and some won't... I'm I stepping on toes?... Sometimes stepping on my own too... Sometime we ALL become to judgmental... Now to get to the positive... One thing I do like about the internet is those who cannot for some reason attend church, they can click on any website of their choosing and hear one, I attend church but I do listen on line too... If they don't like what they are hearing they can turn it off but may be if they listen for awhile, they may get something out of it... Ever been to church, and message didn't connect?... May be the sermon wasn't meant for you and was directed to someone else?... Just some thoughts that have been weighing on my heart and mind... Carry on brethren!... Brother Glen

 

[HankD]

I think I have been misunderstood. I am not suggesting eliminating sermons from every assembly for all time.

Here is your O/P It sounded like you wanted "sermons" justified so I did. Yes, I did misunderstand.

When did the idea of a half-hour sermon every week come into being? Would the assembly be OK without a sermon? Let's say each week you had a testimony or two, some scripture readings from the saints, an open prayer so that anyone with a need from the saints could come to the mic.

In my 50 + years I have been to 2 local churches which had services somewhat as you describe.
Occasionally no sermon but something else, songs, testimonies, praise, specials.

Regardless of denomination, we have settled in to a pretty cookie cutter assembly. A few songs, a token prayer or two, a half hour sermon, closing song, closing prayer.

Yes but a lot depends on the attitudes of the individuals.

Myself I cherish each of the elements of the service (well not always, ya, bad moods, etc).
I have been known to nod off if the sermon is not spirited enough for me (my bad).

Are our assemblies effective for the edification of the saints?

Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

 

[ChurchofChristguy]

Yes but a lot depends on the attitudes of the individuals.

...and if they have ADD like yours truly.