Why so much Angst About Limited atonement?

[Squire Robertsson]

Six Hour Warning

Sometime after 1700 (5pm) Pacific time, I will close this thread.

 

[savedbymercy]

All I'm saying is it took all three...death, burial, AND resurrection to save us. It's like the fire triangle...w/o all three there's no fire. Without all three...death, burial, AND resurrection, we're all as lost as a ball in the weeds.

--But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed. Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.(1 Cor.15:10-20)

Everything Christ did would have profitted us nothing if Christ had not risen. It took His resurrection to fulfill the scriptures concerning His works in saving sinners...

You have denied the Death of Christ by saying that it doesn't save! That's a awful lie not supported by one scripture! Peter wrote to Believers that they were healed /saved by His stripes, meaning His death and you deny it! The Resurrection of Christ provided Evidence that Christ death saved from the penalty of sins!

 

[DHK]

DHK
I just point out what you post. it is error. What do you think I can call it?

Perhaps you could refer to it as your own ignorance. It would be more truthful.

Those who read with understanding know this....

"The logical relationship between vv. 3-4 and vv. 5-7 is crucial. Verses 5-7 summon the readers to a life of virtue, but vv. 3-4 remind us that a life of godliness is rooted in and dependent upon God's grace. Believers should live in a way that pleases God because Christ has given them everything they need for life and godliness. The indicative of God's gift precedes and undergirds the imperative that calls for human exertion. Peter did not lapse,therefore, into works righteousness here since he grounded his exhortations in God's merciful gifts." [Schreiner, 296-97]
I googled Schreiner. I have no idea who he is? Maybe he is the owner of a circus. :laugh:
So much for the credibility of your source.
Even so, he says: "The indicative of God's gift precedes and undergirds the imperative that calls for human exertion."
--Whoops!! More works again!
What were we talking about? Eternal life. Remember?
How do you know that you are one of the elect?
How do you know that you have eternal life?
Your answer is in this passage--you have summed it up by saying, that you know you have your salvation (being one of the elect and having the gift of eternal life), by doing good works. That is what I get out of this. You have a works based salvation. Something that calls for human exertion.

Christians do good works DHK. Good works are ordained for Christians

And this is the reason that you know you have eternal life; the reason that you give that you are one of the elect. That is the same reason every Catholic gives--I am a good person. I do good. Why wouldn't God accept me? See all the good I have done.

He is understanding what peter spoke of. You are unable to welcome it.

Real Christians will perservere;
http://vor.org/truth/1689/1689bc17.html

You mean like David when he committed murder and adultery. We have a Catholic in the Other Denom. forum that believes if David had not immediately repented or died before he had repented, he would have gone to Purgatory. Your belief probably is that he would have gone to hell because for that period of time he was living in adultery (as the RCC says "mortal sin"). Isn't that right? No such thing as a carnal Christian is there?
It is God that looks at the heart; it is God that judges the heart.
But in Calvinism it is the Calvinist that judges the heart. The the P in TULIP makes Calvinism's perseverance into a works salvation. You judge their perseverance or "their works" and then judge their salvation accordingly.

There is no eternal security for anyone who does not perservere by God's grace. Eternal security is a false counterfeit teaching , in the place of biblical perserverance.

Again, works based salvation.
You are one of the few Calvinists I have met that denies eternal security.
Salvation is a gift of God. He doesn't take it back. When one is born again, that is, born into God's family he cannot be "unborn."

 

[Iconoclast]

DHK"

The logical relationship between vv. 3-4 and vv. 5-7 is crucial. Verses 5-7 summon the readers to a life of virtue, but vv. 3-4 remind us that a life of godliness is rooted in and dependent upon God's grace. Believers should live in a way that pleases God because Christ has given them everything they need for life and godliness. The indicative of God's gift precedes and undergirds the imperative that calls for human exertion. Peter did not lapse,therefore, into works righteousness here since he grounded his exhortations in God's merciful gifts." [Schreiner, 296-97]

I googled Schreiner. I have no idea who he is? Maybe he is the owner of a circus. :laugh:
So much for the credibility of your source.

Of course you have no idea who he is , because he is a real biblical theologian unlike you and your clown posts...:laugh:

the owner of a circus????, lets see who is the real clown-

Thomas R. Schreiner is the James Buchanan Harrison Professor of New Testament Interpretation, professor of Biblical Theology, and associate dean of the School of Theology at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary.

He serves as one of the general editors for the new Biblical Theology for Christian Proclamation commentary series and author of the inaugural volume: Commentary on Hebrews , which will be available on February 1. - See more at: http://www.bhacademicblog.com/inter...-christian-proclamation/#sthash.waKw3sC9.dpuf

This is why no one has any respect for you...you trash actual bible teachers and insert your vain thoughts as if you actually knew something:laugh:

Even so, he says: "The indicative of God's gift precedes and undergirds the imperative that calls for human exertion."
--Whoops!! More works again!

So all of these men have it wrong, only you have it correct:laugh: yeah right!

 

[DHK]

DHK"

Of course you have no idea who he is , because he is a real biblical theologian unlike you and your clown posts...:laugh:

the owner of a circus????, lets see who is the real clown-

Thomas R. Schreiner is the James Buchanan Harrison Professor of New Testament Interpretation, professor of Biblical Theology, and associate dean of the School of Theology at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary.

He serves as one of the general editors for the new Biblical Theology for Christian Proclamation commentary series and author of the inaugural volume: Commentary on Hebrews , which will be available on February 1. - See more at: http://www.bhacademicblog.com/inter...-christian-proclamation/#sthash.waKw3sC9.dpuf

This is why no one has any respect for you...you trash actual bible teachers and insert your vain thoughts as if you actually knew something:laugh:

It is not a matter of respect. You quoted someone, and thankfully gave the name of the person indicating you were not plagiarizing. That is good. But you put a name without a URL, (as you just did now), IOW, an unknown person, a nameless face. Had you put the URL with his name in the first place I would have had something to go on.

So all of these men have it wrong, only you have it correct:laugh: yeah right!

That is why I wanted the URL. To see where the guy was coming from.
And who are "all these men" that you are referring to?
I quoted the Scripture before you, and clearly gave the sense of it.
If this is what you are basing your salvation on--the works of a Christian, then it is works salvation. It doesn't matter what other people say.
Admit it. Peter is not writing about salvation, you know that. He is writing to believers as you already stated. These are qualities that Christians should show in their lives. They are also things that believers should "do." Thus the "doing" is what you are basing your salvation on.

The question I originally asked you is: "How do you know you are one of the elect?"
I had a follow-up question: "How do you know you have eternal life?"

In both you referred to this passage of Scripture. But this is not dealing with salvation it is speaking of the Christian walk, the "doing," the every day aspect of the believer's walk with God. If that is how you know you are saved, or "one of the elect," then your salvation is based on works, isn't it?

 

[steaver]

In both you referred to this passage of Scripture. But this is not dealing with salvation it is speaking of the Christian walk, the "doing," the every day aspect of the believer's walk with God. If that is how you know you are saved, or "one of the elect," then your salvation is based on works, isn't it?

Absolutely. If someone gives you this passage as an answer for how they know they are saved, they are relying upon their continued good works to get them in heaven.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

This thread is closed.

Sometime after 1700 (5pm) Pacific time, I will close this thread.

 

[Reformed]

Brother Squire,

It is still open.

 

[Rippon]

DHK stated that he googled Thomas Schreiner's name and yet claims he still doesn't know who the man is! Among other noteworthy things he authored what many feel is the second best commentary on Romans --first place goes to Doug Moo.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Ratskis, :tonofbricks:

Brother Squire,

It is still open.