Why the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is not for Today

[rockytopva]

The Ordinances of the Azusa Street Mission in that I support were Basically Seven….

Justification by faith – We are saved, or justified, by simple faith in Christ.
Sanctification by faith - As a second definite work of grace upon the heart and evidenced by the sweet spirit of Christ in the experience!
Power - The baptism in the Holy Ghost is a gift of power upon the sanctified life, anointing it in service and in work, with the speaking in tongues as one of the ‘signs following’ in the baptized believer along with casting out devils, healing the sick and the fruits of the Spirit accompanying the signs.
Marriage – As a holy union between a man and a woman.
Water Baptism – On those who have reached the age of accountability
Communion - “We believe in the ordinance of the Lord’s supper as instituted by Jesus and followed by the apostles, and teach that it should be frequently observed in holy reverence.”
Foot Washing - “We believe in feet washing as an ordinance, as it was established by our Master before the Lord’s supper, according to John 13:4-18, and believe it was practiced by the Apostles and disciples through the First Century” (1 Tim. 5:10). Unfortunately not too common today.

The Methods to the Fullness of the Spirit of God were Basically Seven....

1. Justification - Faith to enter in
2. Salvation - Christ is our sacrifice
3. Sanctification - "Sanctification makes us clean on the inside." - William Seymour
4. Bible Reading - At the Table of Shewbread
5. Spiritual Fruit - At the Lampstand
6. Prayer and Praise meetings - At the Altar of Golden Incense
7. The Baptism in the Holy Spirit - In the Holy of Holies

I have been on conferences in the Baptist church where I have felt the Holy Spirit in the Holy of Holies.

 

[1689Dave]

The Ordinances of the Azusa Street Mission in that I support were Basically Seven….

Justification by faith – We are saved, or justified, by simple faith in Christ.
Sanctification by faith - As a second definite work of grace upon the heart and evidenced by the sweet spirit of Christ in the experience!
Power - The baptism in the Holy Ghost is a gift of power upon the sanctified life, anointing it in service and in work, with the speaking in tongues as one of the ‘signs following’ in the baptized believer along with casting out devils, healing the sick and the fruits of the Spirit accompanying the signs.
Marriage – As a holy union between a man and a woman.
Water Baptism – On those who have reached the age of accountability
Communion - “We believe in the ordinance of the Lord’s supper as instituted by Jesus and followed by the apostles, and teach that it should be frequently observed in holy reverence.”
Foot Washing - “We believe in feet washing as an ordinance, as it was established by our Master before the Lord’s supper, according to John 13:4-18, and believe it was practiced by the Apostles and disciples through the First Century” (1 Tim. 5:10). Unfortunately not too common today.

The Methods to the Fullness of the Spirit of God were Basically Seven....

1. Justification - Faith to enter in
2. Salvation - Christ is our sacrifice
3. Sanctification - "Sanctification makes us clean on the inside." - William Seymour
4. Bible Reading - At the Table of Shewbread
5. Spiritual Fruit - At the Lampstand
6. Prayer and Praise meetings - At the Altar of Golden Incense
7. The Baptism in the Holy Spirit - In the Holy of Holies

I have been on conferences in the Baptist church where I have felt the Holy Spirit in the Holy of Holies.

Seymour was a Wesley Methodist. So you see Methodist doctrine in Pentecostalism today. But he was also a voodoo practitioner according to Curtis Edwards; Edwards, Curtis. Pagan Pentecostalism: Its Roots: Sex, Sin & Slavery . Seymour believed his voodoo tongues were no different from the first century tongues spoken in Acts. So basically, he merged voodoo with Wesley Methodism into what we call Pentecostalism today. If you study "biblical tongues", they are not even close to the tongues Pentecostals believe are spiritual gifts.

 

[utilyan]

Every miracle Jesus performed is ORDINARY HUMAN CAPACITY.

Jesus even states with the faith the size of mustard seed, you can move a mountain.

TONGUES? HAH.... thats nothing.

You can tell a tree get up and go plant yourself over there.

Everyone who teaches miracles, healings, tongues, is gone is really saying THEIR FAITH IS GONE.

 

[1689Dave]

Every miracle Jesus performed is ORDINARY HUMAN CAPACITY.

Jesus even states with the faith the size of mustard seed, you can move a mountain.

TONGUES? HAH.... thats nothing.

You can tell a tree get up and go plant yourself over there.

Everyone who teaches miracles, healings, tongues, is gone is really saying THEIR FAITH IS GONE.

The signs and wonders (raising the dead, healing twisted limbs, etc.) were unique to the Apostles and those they laid hands on. The prayer of faith heals but is dependent on God providing the faith.

 

[rockytopva]

Seymour was a Wesley Methodist. So you see Methodist doctrine in Pentecostalism today. But he was also a voodoo practitioner according to Curtis Edwards; Edwards, Curtis. Pagan Pentecostalism: Its Roots: Sex, Sin & Slavery . Seymour believed his voodoo tongues were no different from the first century tongues spoken in Acts. So basically, he merged voodoo with Wesley Methodism into what we call Pentecostalism today. If you study "biblical tongues", they are not even close to the tongues Pentecostals believe are spiritual gifts.

Bearing false witness is a sin.

 

[Yeshua1]

I think it better for an individual who has not received the baptism of the Holy Spirit to be honest and admit it rather than to say, based on their not having that experience, that no one else can receive it either.

We just cannot find any scriptures to support it, as defined by Charismatics!

 

[Yeshua1]

Every miracle Jesus performed is ORDINARY HUMAN CAPACITY.

Jesus even states with the faith the size of mustard seed, you can move a mountain.

TONGUES? HAH.... thats nothing.

You can tell a tree get up and go plant yourself over there.

Everyone who teaches miracles, healings, tongues, is gone is really saying THEIR FAITH IS GONE.

Jesus was and is God, so all of His miracles are due to that truth!

 

[rockytopva]

The signs follow the faith...

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. - Mark 16

 

[Yeshua1]

The signs and wonders (raising the dead, healing twisted limbs, etc.) were unique to the Ap Church, aoon in thestles and those they laid hands on. The prayer of faith heals but is dependent on God providing the faith.

There are no more signs gifts in operation,as God still can at times heal and work miracles, but its Him doing that directly!

 

[1689Dave]

Bearing false witness is a sin.

This is true according to Pentecostal history. Promoting it is sin in view of this.

 

[1689Dave]

The signs follow the faith...

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. - Mark 16

““Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ “And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’” Matthew 7:22–23 (NASB95)

 

[1689Dave]

There are no more signs gifts in operation,as God still can at times heal and work miracles, but its Him doing that directly!

“and the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up, and if he has committed sins, they will be forgiven him.” James 5:15 (NASB95)

But it is God who gives faith or withholds it in these matters.

 

[rockytopva]

William Seymour once warned that, “Whenever the doctrine of the baptism in the Holy Ghost will only be known as the evidence of speaking in tongues, that work will be an open door for witches and spiritualist and free loveism. That work will suffer because all kinds of spirits can come in.”

So, according to his own view, the doctrine can be an open door to evil. Which is why I put little stress on the tongues... And a whole lot more on dwelling in a place where one can get something of value in return from God..

The Ordinances of the Azusa Street Mission in that I support were Basically Seven….

Justification by faith – We are saved, or justified, by simple faith in Christ.
Sanctification by faith - As a second definite work of grace upon the heart and evidenced by the sweet spirit of Christ in the experience!
Power - The baptism in the Holy Ghost is a gift of power upon the sanctified life, anointing it in service and in work, with the speaking in tongues as one of the ‘signs following’ in the baptized believer along with casting out devils, healing the sick and the fruits of the Spirit accompanying the signs.
Marriage – As a holy union between a man and a woman.
Water Baptism – On those who have reached the age of accountability
Communion - “We believe in the ordinance of the Lord’s supper as instituted by Jesus and followed by the apostles, and teach that it should be frequently observed in holy reverence.”
Foot Washing - “We believe in feet washing as an ordinance, as it was established by our Master before the Lord’s supper, according to John 13:4-18, and believe it was practiced by the Apostles and disciples through the First Century” (1 Tim. 5:10). Unfortunately not too common today.

The Methods to the Fullness of the Spirit of God were Basically Seven....

1. Justification - Faith to enter in
2. Salvation - Christ is our sacrifice
3. Sanctification - "Sanctification makes us clean on the inside." - William Seymour
4. Bible Reading - At the Table of Shewbread
5. Spiritual Fruit - At the Lampstand
6. Prayer and Praise meetings - At the Altar of Golden Incense
7. The Baptism in the Holy Spirit - In the Holy of Holies

I

 

[1689Dave]

William Seymour once warned that, “Whenever the doctrine of the baptism in the Holy Ghost will only be known as the evidence of speaking in tongues, that work will be an open door for witches and spiritualist and free loveism. That work will suffer because all kinds of spirits can come in.”

So, according to his own view, the doctrine can be an open door to evil. Which is why I put little stress on the tongues... And a whole lot more on dwelling in a place where one can get something of value in return from God..

The Ordinances of the Azusa Street Mission in that I support were Basically Seven….

Justification by faith – We are saved, or justified, by simple faith in Christ.
Sanctification by faith - As a second definite work of grace upon the heart and evidenced by the sweet spirit of Christ in the experience!
Power - The baptism in the Holy Ghost is a gift of power upon the sanctified life, anointing it in service and in work, with the speaking in tongues as one of the ‘signs following’ in the baptized believer along with casting out devils, healing the sick and the fruits of the Spirit accompanying the signs.
Marriage – As a holy union between a man and a woman.
Water Baptism – On those who have reached the age of accountability
Communion - “We believe in the ordinance of the Lord’s supper as instituted by Jesus and followed by the apostles, and teach that it should be frequently observed in holy reverence.”
Foot Washing - “We believe in feet washing as an ordinance, as it was established by our Master before the Lord’s supper, according to John 13:4-18, and believe it was practiced by the Apostles and disciples through the First Century” (1 Tim. 5:10). Unfortunately not too common today.

The Methods to the Fullness of the Spirit of God were Basically Seven....

1. Justification - Faith to enter in
2. Salvation - Christ is our sacrifice
3. Sanctification - "Sanctification makes us clean on the inside." - William Seymour
4. Bible Reading - At the Table of Shewbread
5. Spiritual Fruit - At the Lampstand
6. Prayer and Praise meetings - At the Altar of Golden Incense
7. The Baptism in the Holy Spirit - In the Holy of Holies

I

If you begin with scripture, tongues are not for today. The Baptism with the Holy Spirit provided God’s word through tongues and prophecy until the New Testament canon became complete. How do we know this? Paul says scripture thoroughly equips us 2 Timothy 3:17. Paul said tongues and prophecy provided only partial knowledge 1 Corinthians 13:9. So it makes sense scripture replaced them when completed.

 

[rockytopva]

If you begin with scripture, tongues are not for today. The Baptism with the Holy Spirit provided God’s word through tongues and prophecy until the New Testament canon became complete. How do we know this? Paul says scripture thoroughly equips us 2 Timothy 3:17. Paul said tongues and prophecy provided only partial knowledge 1 Corinthians 13:9. So it makes sense scripture replaced them when completed.

(Knowledge + Flesh) - Holy Spirit = Plain Yankee Jane

Which I flee from.

 

[1689Dave]

(Knowledge + Flesh) - Holy Spirit = Plain Yankee Jane

Which I flee from.

You need to prove me wrong from the bible.

 

[Yeshua1]

“and the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up, and if he has committed sins, they will be forgiven him.” James 5:15 (NASB95)

But it is God who gives faith or withholds it in these matters.

It is the object of that faith, God Himself who would do the healing, not the person with gift of faith.

 

[1689Dave]

It is the object of that faith, God Himself who would do the healing, not the person with gift of faith.

James says the prayer of faith heals the sick.

 

[Yeshua1]

William Seymour once warned that, “Whenever the doctrine of the baptism in the Holy Ghost will only be known as the evidence of speaking in tongues, that work will be an open door for witches and spiritualist and free loveism. That work will suffer because all kinds of spirits can come in.”

So, according to his own view, the doctrine can be an open door to evil. Which is why I put little stress on the tongues... And a whole lot more on dwelling in a place where one can get something of value in return from God..

The Ordinances of the Azusa Street Mission in that I support were Basically Seven….

Justification by faith – We are saved, or justified, by simple faith in Christ.
Sanctification by faith - As a second definite work of grace upon the heart and evidenced by the sweet spirit of Christ in the experience!
Power - The baptism in the Holy Ghost is a gift of power upon the sanctified life, anointing it in service and in work, with the speaking in tongues as one of the ‘signs following’ in the baptized believer along with casting out devils, healing the sick and the fruits of the Spirit accompanying the signs.
Marriage – As a holy union between a man and a woman.
Water Baptism – On those who have reached the age of accountability
Communion - “We believe in the ordinance of the Lord’s supper as instituted by Jesus and followed by the apostles, and teach that it should be frequently observed in holy reverence.”
Foot Washing - “We believe in feet washing as an ordinance, as it was established by our Master before the Lord’s supper, according to John 13:4-18, and believe it was practiced by the Apostles and disciples through the First Century” (1 Tim. 5:10). Unfortunately not too common today.

The Methods to the Fullness of the Spirit of God were Basically Seven....

1. Justification - Faith to enter in
2. Salvation - Christ is our sacrifice
3. Sanctification - "Sanctification makes us clean on the inside." - William Seymour
4. Bible Reading - At the Table of Shewbread
5. Spiritual Fruit - At the Lampstand
6. Prayer and Praise meetings - At the Altar of Golden Incense
7. The Baptism in the Holy Spirit - In the Holy of Holies

I

Which verse in scripture commands the saved to seek this Baptism in Holy Spirit then? If for today, would not the Lord have us seek it?

 

[Yeshua1]

James says the prayer of faith heals the sick.

The Object of that faith is the One that heals!