Why the Christian Urge to Criticize

[DHK]

You are posting in a debate forum. By doing so you are looking for disagreement. The OP then is moot. If you don't want disagreement with what you post, post in the Fellowship Forums. If you want almost total agreement then post in the "Prayer, Praise, and Request" forum. I don't think anyone will disagree with you there.

Once your opinion, or even what you consider as fact is stated here, in a debate forum, be sure that it will be challenged, disagreed with, argued against--even if it is the color of clothes that you wear. After all, you are posting in a debate forum. Would you expect anything less.

 

[EdSutton]

No, ed is trying to justify the garbage that goes on in modern churches and is draggin' poor Jonah into it. :laugh:

Ed is not trying to justify anything.

"We're just looking at the facts, ma'am!" as Sgt. Joe Friday might have said.

But I do often see opinion and personal preference masquerading as 'Bible' which does tend to annoy me somewhat, I'll say. Much of what I see today is not suited to my personal preferences, by any stretch, but that alone, does not make it unBiblical, in any manner.

Ed

 

[thegospelgeek]

You are posting in a debate forum. By doing so you are looking for disagreement. The OP then is moot. If you don't want disagreement with what you post, post in the Fellowship Forums. If you want almost total agreement then post in the "Prayer, Praise, and Request" forum. I don't think anyone will disagree with you there.

Once your opinion, or even what you consider as fact is stated here, in a debate forum, be sure that it will be challenged, disagreed with, argued against--even if it is the color of clothes that you wear. After all, you are posting in a debate forum. Would you expect anything less.

Don't be so quick to dismiss the OP.
I'm not talking about on this BB or any other. I'm talking about the negative attitudes of christians everywhere I go. They take such pride in doing things the way they do them that anything else is wrong.

Take for example the artist Toby Mac. I do not like Toby Mac songs. I do not enjoy listening to his style of music. I am not his intended audiance. He is reaching a completely different crowd than I am. Most, if not everyone I know, would say that style of music is ungodly. If they saw Toby mac, they would say that there is NO way he is a Christian, because Christians are supposed to be like me.

I am just using TM as an example, you can put almost anything or anyone in place and the conversations would be the same. Yea, there are some on the BB like that, but as you say, that's the point of the BB.

Some day God may shake our worlds so that we need brothers and sisters in Christ who are different than us. Maybe then we would learn.

Back to the OP question. Is this a positive or negative?

 

[EdSutton]

Funny!

I would add,

How do your like your pews. Padded________ Un-Padded_______

Definitely padded!

In fact, only this Sunday, I started out by sitting on a metal chair, for services. There was a time when that would have been fine, and I'd even have preferred that, as I used to prefer to sit on a wooden chair, or the wooden pews located toward the back of our church, rather than the padded pews located only one seat ahead, but having now lost more than 100# following surgeries and dieting because I am a diabetic, at now 200#, I found that the chair became very uncomfortable after a short time, and actually moved to find one that was padded.

BTW, I do not ever recall moving before, in more than 60 yrs. because of any uncomfortable seat, although I am not beyond moving for better acoustics.

Uh, we don't have any pews (only chairs) in the larger new Auditorium/Gym, where we are now meeting for our services when we may expect the crowd to be larger than our older auditorium can reasonably seat.

Ed

 

[DHK]

A critical spirit is negative.
But there is such a thing as positive criticism. It is possible to do that in these debate forums where we can learn about the positions others take, why they take them. It helps us to: "know why we believe what we believe."
It helps us to "cement" our convictions, or change them if we realize that we have been wrong in our position.
Debate or disagreement in a positive way, can be very beneficial and need not to be looked at as criticism all the time. There are critical spirits that tend to destroy the unity of churches. The Bible speaks against such.

 

[EdSutton]

I wonder if this might be a good place to point out that 'the most powerful sermon' ever preached, was a total of 8 words (when translated into English), preached from a street corner, by the most obnoxious bigot, who was the most out of fellowship, 'Baptist' preacher in history, who never wanted to even preach, in the first place, but only did so, to save his own neck, and then was so unhappy that God did not destroy those to whom he had preached, he would have actually preferred that God had struck him dead, rather than live to see the salvation of any such heathens, as those?

opinion?

Perhaps those who point out the errors of others are "watchmen" who are pointing out the wolves who are trying to feed on the flock.

Uh- I'm not sure whether you are agreeing with me here (Did I say something that cannot be reasonably shown from the Book of Jonah or other Scriptures, here?), or disagreeing with what I posted. Maybe you would like to elaborate just a bit more, for exactly who you are referring to as these "watchmen" is not clear, at least to me. Thanks,

Ed

 

[thegospelgeek]

Definitely padded!

In fact, only this Sunday, I started out by sitting on a metal chair, for services. There was a time when that would have been fine, and I'd even have preferred that, as I used to prefer to sit on a wooden chair, or the wooden pews located toward the back of our church, rather than the padded pews located only one seat ahead, but having now lost more than 100# following surgeries and dieting because I am a diabetic, at now 200#, I found that the chair became very uncomfortable after a short time, and actually moved to find one that was padded.

BTW, I do not ever recall moving before, in more than 60 yrs. because of any uncomfortable seat, although I am not beyond moving for better acoustics.

Uh, we don't have any pews (only chairs) in the larger new Auditorium/Gym, where we are now meeting for our services when we may expect the crowd to be larger than our older auditorium can reasonably seat.

Ed

Surely you don't meet in a gym that is used for things other than worship. Do you have no respect for the Lord? You should have a sanctuary, sanctified and dedicated for worship. But then again you have a large crowd, so I am sure that the gospel has been compromised or you wouldn't be able to have that many.

 

[thegospelgeek]

A critical spirit is negative.
But there is such a thing as positive criticism. It is possible to do that in these debate forums where we can learn about the positions others take, why they take them. It helps us to: "know why we believe what we believe."
It helps us to "cement" our convictions, or change them if we realize that we have been wrong in our position.
Debate or disagreement in a positive way, can be very beneficial and need not to be looked at as criticism all the time. There are critical spirits that tend to destroy the unity of churches. The Bible speaks against such.

How do we work to get rid of it? I know of many christians, who otherwise are very Godly people, who have this critical spirit. They would never say anything to hurt someone directly. They would help anyone who was in need. But if it come to worshiping different than them, they shake there heads and have pity on those ungodly folks who are being deceived.

 

[Revmitchell]

How do we work to get rid of it? I know of many christians, who otherwise are very Godly people, who have this critical spirit. They would never say anything to hurt someone directly. They would help anyone who was in need. But if it come to worshiping different than them, they shake there heads and have pity on those ungodly folks who are being deceived.

You say "different than them", this is a very vague and broad term which assigns motive to the "them". What are the specifics about the worship they oppose and how do you come to the conclusion it is their motivation. Have they said this was their motivation or is this simply your personal opinion?

 

[thegospelgeek]

You say "different than them", this is a very vague and broad term which assigns motive to the "them". What are the specifics about the worship they oppose and how do you come to the conclusion it is their motivation. Have they said this was their motivation or is this simply your personal opinion?

I do not want to get into specific cases because I see it many places. In many churches. And across denominations. I am not speaking of different doctrines, such as election, grace, or anything regarding salvation. Not speaking of tounges, miracles, or gifts. I am just talking about being critical of a modern vs traditional service. Whether or not SS has coffee. The general idea that you have to find fault with everything.

One time I was discussing singing groups and was told that a certain group was not really Christian because they had heard from a friend that knew someone that had them at their church and they wern't very nice. That kind of thing.

I really would like to know how to get it out of the church. Has anyone experianced this attitude before? have you every successfully overcome it. Sometimes I just want to run from it.

 

[thegospelgeek]

You say "different than them", this is a very vague and broad term which assigns motive to the "them". What are the specifics about the worship they oppose and how do you come to the conclusion it is their motivation. Have they said this was their motivation or is this simply your personal opinion?

Stuff like my comments to Ed about his church.

 

[EdSutton]

Surely you don't meet in a gym that is used for things other than worship. Do you have no respect for the Lord? You should have a sanctuary, sanctified and dedicated for worship. But then again you have a large crowd, so I am sure that the gospel has been compromised or you wouldn't be able to have that many.

Well, it was Easter Sunday, you see.

I hope to always be physically able to attend Easter and Christmas services.

Otherwise, I might not get the opportunity to speak to some folks in church, or even be able to actually meet them in church, for another whole year. :tear:

Ed

 

[ReformedBaptist]

Ed is not trying to justify anything.

"We're just looking at the facts, ma'am!" as Sgt. Joe Friday might have said.

But I do often see opinion and personal preference masquerading as 'Bible' which does tend to annoy me somewhat, I'll say. Much of what I see today is not suited to my personal preferences, by any stretch, but that alone, does not make it unBiblical, in any manner.

Ed

Its not what makes something unbiblical, but rather whether what we are doing is biblical.

 

[Alcott]

It seems that every Christian I talk to is against everything. If you mention a preacher, they are quick to point out any chinks in the armor. Mention a singing group and they tell me how worldly they are and they only sing for poularity or money. Mention a denomination and hear about the false doctrines. It doesn't matter if it is someone in the public eye or just someone local, very few will 'measure up'.

You sure like to criticize, don't you?
Answer why you do it and you should make quite a distance to your overall answer.

 

[Revmitchell]

It would take a concentrated effort by the leadership of the church through prayer,example,scripture,and calling people on it.

 

[Palatka51]

Surely you don't meet in a gym that is used for things other than worship. Do you have no respect for the Lord? You should have a sanctuary, sanctified and dedicated for worship. But then again you have a large crowd, so I am sure that the gospel has been compromised or you wouldn't be able to have that many.

Ah, sarcasm. I was about to jump on this one. :laugh:

 

[preachinjesus]

Back to the OP question. Is this a positive or negative?

This is a good question imho.

Far too many Christians are openly and negatively critical in a way that isn't glorifying to God. Now this isn't to say that we should dismiss criticism, but we should understand it properly. There is a way to be critical but affirming.

One thing that I've noticed is that many American Christians believe all opinions matter equally. Frankly there are some opinions that are more qualified than others on topics. One of the unfortunate things that the internet breeds is a kind of "uncheckable outrage" that allows any person to believe their voice matters equally.

It is hard to be affirming for most people. I struggle with it too. One of the things that I try to practice is listening twice as much as I talk and when ever I write something in my personal ministry I add two positive comments for every (perceivable) negative.

Unfortunately we often see the negative more than the positive.

While I get and understand this is a debate forum, some people are just jerks about disagreeing. Why pick apart everything? Why challenge all things?

I really struggle with "self-annointed trust seekers" who are "watchdogs" for "truth" ministries. Usually they're just nattering naybobs of negativism. Too people are itching for a fight because they haven't God's place for them...or stopped listening.

Great thread idea!

 

[Tom Butler]

I know it's not meant this way, but this is how some comments come across to me:

"If you have an unshakable belief that something is true, you are being narrow minded."

"To insist that what you believe is true, and what somebody else believes is false is uncharitable, unChristian, and mean-spirited."

I know, I know, we discussing how to disagree without being disagreeable. But some posts sound as if having a firm opinion is somehow a bad thing.

Is Jesus the way, truth and light, or is that just your opinion? We believers have staked our entire eternal future on that truth.

If you want to discuss music in church, then we can have an exchange of opinions. I'm pretty much a traditional kind of guy. I'm not culturally attuned to contemporary stuff. You love it? Fine, you're not wrong.

You want your church's rock band to play AC/DC's "Highway to Hell" in the morning service. Now you're wrong. It is an abomination to do so. (This actually happened).

You want to discuss eschatology? Let's discuss it. My view is sort of unsettled. I know what I think is true, but I didn't used to think so, and may not think so in the future. I think I'm right, right now, but it's not settled.

I've been sort of disturbed lately at what I see is a growing trend in modern Christianity to hold that uncertainty is a virtue, and nothing is worth arguing about.

Thank goodness for all of you here on the Baptist Board, where the prevailing view is the same as mine: I'm right. Even if I'm wrong, I'm not in doubt.