Why the double standard?

Not to get into a capital punishment debate, but what Calvin is accused of (often wrongly, I might add) regarding Servetus was carrying out the punishment for a capital crime. Servetus broke a law of society and was punished for it. We may disagree with the punishment for his particular crime (which I do), but it was not murder. It was the state carrying out what it thought to be justice, however misguided they may have been.

 

Calvin didn't murder anyone.

He lived in a time when heretical speech was a capital offense. He begged the guy not to come to Switzerland knowing the consequences. The guy came any way.

I'm not justifying the execution or Calvin's role in it. But it is incorrect to call his part in the ordeal "murder".

 

And Calvin did not make the decision to execute him. In fact, he was the only one to argue for mitigation in his case.

 

I am wondering if these quotes attributed to Calvin are accurate?:

http://www.bcbsr.com/topics/servetus.html

7 years before the incident:
"If he [Servetus] comes [to Geneva], I shall never let him go out alive if my authority has weight."
After the incident:
"Many people have accused me of such ferocious cruelty that (they allege) I would like to kill again the man I have destroyed. Not only am I indifferent to their comments, but I rejoice in the fact that they spit in my face."

"Whoever shall now contend that it is unjust to put heretics and blasphemers to death will knowingly and willingly incur their very guilt.

Servetus' final words while being burned alive tied to a stake:
"Jesu, thou Son of the eternal God, have compassion upon me!"

And is this true?:

Michael Servetus, a Spaniard, a physician, a scientist and a Bible scholar was born in Villanova in 1511. He was credited with the discovery of the pulmonary circulation of the blood from the right chamber of the heart through the lungs and back to the left chamber of the heart. He was Calvin's longtime friend in their earlier resistance against the Roman Catholic Church. Servetus, while living in Vienne (historic city in southeastern France), angered Calvin by returning a copy of Calvin's writings, Institutes, with critical comments in the margins. Servetus was arrested by the Roman Catholic Authorities on April 4 but escaped on April 7, 1553. He traveled to Geneva where he attended Calvin's Sunday preaching service on August 13. Calvin promptly had Servetus arrested and charged with heresy for his disagreement with Calvin's theology. The thirty-eight official charges included rejection of the Trinity and infant baptism. Servetus was correct in challenging Calvin's false teaching about infant baptism leading to salvation, but he was heretical in his rejection of the doctrine of the Trinity. Servetus pleaded to be beheaded instead of the more brutal method of burning at the stake, but Calvin and the city council refused the quicker death method. Other Protestant churches throughout Switzerland advised Calvin that Servetus be condemned but not executed. Calvin ignored their pleas and Servetus was burned at the stake on October 27, 1553. Servetus was screaming as he was literally baked alive from the feet upward and suffered the heat of the flames for 30 minutes before finally succumbing to one of the most painful and brutal death methods possible. Servetus had written a theology book, a copy of which Calvin had strapped to the chest of Servetus. The flames from the burning book rose against Servetus' face as he screamed in agony.

John Calvin was proud of his killing of Servetus, bragging and celebrating. Many theological and state leaders criticized Calvin for the unwarranted killing of Servetus, but it fell on deaf ears as Calvin advised others to do the same. Calvin wrote much in following years in a continual attempt to justify his burning of Servetus. Some people claim Calvin favored beheading, but this does not fit charges of heresy for which the punishment as written by Calvin earlier was to be burning at the stake. Calvin had made a vow years earlier that Servetus would never leave Geneva alive if he were ever captured, and Calvin held true to his pledge.

Another victim of Calvin's fiery zeal was Gentile of an Italian sect in Geneva, which also numbered among its adherents Alciati and Gribaldo. More or less Unitarian in their views, they were required to sign a confession drawn up by Calvin in 1558. Gentile signed it reluctantly, but in the upshot he was condemned and imprisoned as a perjurer. He escaped only to be twice incarcerated at Berne where, in 1566, he was beheaded. Calvin also had thirty-four (34) women burned at the stake after accusing them of causing a plague that had swept through Geneva in 1545. John Calvin's actions were very paganistic like his mentor, Saint Augustine. Jesus and all of the Apostles would have abhorred and condemn these blatant mass murders.
Puritanism.

The citizens of Geneva hated John Calvin as he clearly stated. In 1554 Calvin wrote "Dogs bark at me on all sides. Everywhere I am saluted with the name of 'heretic,' and all the calumnies that can possibly be invented are heaped upon me; in a word, the enemies among my own flock attack me with greater bitterness than my declared enemies among the papists." Calvin, quoted in Schaff, History, volume 8, page 496. The history of John Calvin's reign of terror in Geneva is undisputed. Calvin himself had historical records kept that have survived to this day.

http://www.biblelife.org/calvinism.htm

Here is another site on the subject that says nothing about Calvin warning Servetus not to come to Geneva:

http://www.gospeltruth.net/heresy/heresy_chap5.htm

Here is a Catholic site that says the same thing:

http://www.sullivan-county.com/identity/reformers.htm

Who am I to believe?

And OT, I would say that the other thread was canceled because it is almost always the Calvinists that start these contentious threads.

 

Here is a painting of him at an early age.

PAINTING

Well, that was most likely before his best work. </font>[/QUOTE]

 

Jack , you need to pick up Lorraine Boettner's book : " The Reformed Doctrine Of Predestination . " In it Dr.Boettner spends considerable time on the issue of Servetus and his ties with Calvin .

Your personal words that Calvin led "a reign or terror" is patently false . I said before that Calvin didn't even become a citizen of Geneva until 1559 , six years after Servetus' death . Calvin was practically the only one that urged restraint in the matter . Calvin did not have the authority you think he had . I admit he did not try to prevent Servetus' death , but he wanted a more humane way of carrying out the execution . He urged those in charge not to burn Servetus . Just about everyone ( even Roman Catholics ) wanted the very worse done to Servetus .

All you are trying to do is put Calvin in a bad light so that you might persuade others that Calvinism is wrong . Am I correct ? Calvinism does not rest on the shoulders of John Calvin . But you have ignored that vital point . Calvinism is biblical . It is true to the Scriptures . The opposite position is false to the Word of God .

Since so many Calvinists here have said that they are not dependant on that man of Geneva for their theology -- why haven't you grasped that elementary point ? Tackle Spurgeon or Pink or someone else more recent that we read more often . But at best Spurgeon , Pink and others have tried to be as scriptural as possible . Ultimately you will have to take up your disagreements with the Author of the Bible .

 

Rippon.
You wrote:

What do you mean by my personal words? I didn't write any of those quote. I got them from the web sites.

And I was serious in wanting to know if the quotes were real or not. In fact I had never even heard of this murder stuff until a few months ago. I really don't know for sure.

I was wondering why so many different sites had the same quotes. Do you have any web sites or documentation to back up your version of Calvin's intents?

And BTW, it was hardly altruistic for Calvin to want him to be murdered more gently. 1 John 3:14

 

Ehh? He supported torture, you know. I don't think he was particularly concerned with brutality, at least no so much that it made any difference.

 

You know what you should do, Paulites and Apolloites? Shut up and go win souls. I can see us now, standing before that throne:
"What did you do for me with that limited resource, TIME?"
"uhm, well, I showed Petrel that a guy in the 1500's was no worse than one of the other guys in the 1600's, and that the guys in the 1900's and 2000's are better than the guys in the 700's and..."

Is this Edifying one another, or is this edifying one's own ego?

You know, there is a whole Bible out there just waiting for one of us to obey it like we should...

 

So why are you wasting God's time by posting in this forum? Shouldn't you be soul-winning instead?

Sorry for the big ego. Would you like to see my list of people I've "won" so you won't think of me in that way? I've got several years worth of them written all in my soul-winners bible and then in notebooks because there were so many. But then I stopped that business of recording the names to my glory because I learned that God is the only soul-winner.

How about if I publish all of my brags about how many souls I've won? Would I be acceptable to you then?

And in what way is it a waste of time to insist that God receive the glory due Him?