Originally posted by Briguy:
First, Carol(MEE). I have showed clearly that Acts 2:38,39 are not for us, unless of course you are Jewish. Acts 2:38-39 is a direct response from Peter to a direct question by a group of jews, and the "we" that is spoken of in "what shall we do" is the people of Isreal, who just put the Messiah to death and believed that they had become a footstool (enemy) of God. I could go on but the point is that you need to refute what I am saying or stopping using this scripture to support you srgument. To use it without addressing what I am saying is just not appropriate.
**Brian, the only thing that you have said is what you believe, about the baptism of the Holy Ghost, evidenced by speaking in tongues. It is just your opinion. Granted, it was for the Jews 'FIRST' then salvation was given to the Gentiles. Remember Cornelius?
I have addressed what you are saying many times, but here it goes agian. Acts 2:38-39
38) Then Peter said unto them Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39) For the promise (SPIRT) is unto (YOU) (being the Jews) and to (YOUR CHILDREN) (future Jews) and to (ALL) that are afar off (THAT'S GENTILES) even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
As I have said before, "He's still calling!"
And don't forget that these "tongues" were a sign to unbelieving Isreal that a judgement was coming. In 70ad judgement came and tongues faded away as they were predicted to do in 1 cor. 13.
Brian, if you are referring to the Day of Pentecost when the Spirit of God was poured out upon the Jews, why do you insist that God withdrew His Spirit, from humanity? The destruction of Israel had nothing to do with removing the Gospel!
Speaking in tongues has not ceased! When that which is perfect comes (the end of the Gentile dispensation) then tongues will cease.
Carol, you said something strange. You said
"""**If you know how I believe the Bible speaks on this subject, why do you ask? Are these "great men" any better than the Jews, that rejected God's plan of salvation?"""
So you are saying that to not speak in tongues is to reject God's plan of salvation???
I'm saying what the Bible says. One has to repent-Die out to sin = DEATH
Be baptized, in the name of Jesus Christ = BURIAL
Receive the Holy Ghost = RESURRECTION
Death, burial, and resurrection is God's plan of salvation, e.i, the gospel!
Matthew 7:14) Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and FEW there be that find it.
MEE
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Why the Emphasis on Tongues?
- Thread starter MennoMan
- Start date
MEE, there's a problem with your logic:
When Peter said "afar off," he prefaced it with "your children," so "afar off" was actually referring to grandchildren and great-grandchildren.
Now, how about my other questions from page 4?
Peter wasn't talking about the Gentiles; in fact, he didn't understand that God would also graft in that branch until later in the book of Acts (Cornelius, substantiated in Acts 15).
When Peter said "afar off," he prefaced it with "your children," so "afar off" was actually referring to grandchildren and great-grandchildren.
Now, how about my other questions from page 4?
Don, is the post below the one that you are requesting an answer to? If so, I answered that question on, I think 
page 4 at 1:18 PM.
MEE
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Don, try this link!
http://altupc.com/articles/tongues1.htm
Below is just a portion of what you may be seeking.
The gift of tongues is different from the tongues as the initial evidence of the Holy Spirit baptism. Compare the following:
1. These tongues differ in purpose. The gift of tongues along with the gift of interpretation of tongues has been give unto some in the church to convey a message from God to the congregation as the need requires. I Cor. 12:7, 27, 28. But the tongues as evidence of receiving the Holy Ghost, is the believers personal experience with God, and is not designed to convey a message to the church.
2. Also these tongues differ in operation. The gift of tongues in the church is limited to two or three messages and that by course: and one must interpret I Cor. 14:27. But the tongues as evidence of the Holy Spirit baptism is an unlimited manifestation and requires no interpretation.
page 4 at 1:18 PM.MEE
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Don, try this link!
http://altupc.com/articles/tongues1.htm
Below is just a portion of what you may be seeking.
The gift of tongues is different from the tongues as the initial evidence of the Holy Spirit baptism. Compare the following:
1. These tongues differ in purpose. The gift of tongues along with the gift of interpretation of tongues has been give unto some in the church to convey a message from God to the congregation as the need requires. I Cor. 12:7, 27, 28. But the tongues as evidence of receiving the Holy Ghost, is the believers personal experience with God, and is not designed to convey a message to the church.
2. Also these tongues differ in operation. The gift of tongues in the church is limited to two or three messages and that by course: and one must interpret I Cor. 14:27. But the tongues as evidence of the Holy Spirit baptism is an unlimited manifestation and requires no interpretation.
tamborine lady
Active Member
Don , you posted this statement a few pages back, and I was going to ignore it, but I have reconsidered, because there may be others here seeking the Baptism of the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues.
you said:
TAMBOURINE LADY,
I once received a check that I thought was from my mother. Turns out I was mistaken, and I needed to return the money.
Understand?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yes, I understand. I understand that you are not very well versed on how we get things from God!!
Please read the following scripture and think about it!!
Luke 11-11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?
12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?
13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
HOW MUCH MORE SHALL YOUR HEAVENLY FATHER GIVE THE HOLY SPIRIT TO THEM THAT ASK HIM/
If you are asking God for the baptism, then you will NOT receive a counterfit, or something from the devil!!
Working for Him,
Tam
Tam, couldn't have come up with a better scripture. Way to go!Originally posted by tamborine lady:
Yes, I understand. I understand that you are not very well versed on how we get things from God!!
Please read the following scripture and think about it!!
Luke 11-11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?
12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?
13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
HOW MUCH MORE SHALL YOUR HEAVENLY FATHER GIVE THE HOLY SPIRIT TO THEM THAT ASK HIM/
If you are asking God for the baptism, then you will NOT receive a counterfit, or something from the devil!!
Working for Him,
Tam
[/QB]
MEE
Peter wasn't talking about the Gentiles; in fact, he didn't understand that God would also graft in that branch until later in the book of Acts (Cornelius, substantiated in Acts 15).
When Peter said "afar off," he prefaced it with "your children," so "afar off" was actually referring to grandchildren and great-grandchildren.
</font>[/QUOTE]Don't think so Don!...because Peter may not have known at that time, but he quoted scripture from Joel 2, in Acts 2:17; therefore God knew what was in His plan. The scriptures don't contradict each other if rightly divided.
17) And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God; I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh:
MEE
Thanks (in advance, for answering)! </font>[/QUOTE]Below is the answer to your question, that is on page four. As you can see, I said, "...they were saved."
MEE
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MEE:
As far as the 120 (apostles included) that were in that upper room are concerned, they went from being under the Law to the Grace dispensation and they were saved. They just happened to be in a time when the NT Church was born and the Law was no longer in effect.
Repentance alone, preached by John the baptist, was no longer in effect, after the Spirit of God was poured out, on the Day of Pentecost. As Peter said in Acts 2:38-39) ...Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39) For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
Carol, don't have much time but look at Joel 2:
26] And ye shall eat in plenty, and be satisfied, and praise the name of the LORD your God, that hath dealt wondrously with you: and my people shall never be ashamed.
[27] And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.
[28] And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
[29] And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
[30] And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
[31] The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
This is about Isreal and to try to make Peter say something to the Gentiles while quoting this is just poor logic. For one thing this hasn't happened yet. We know that because, well, read the verses I included. Dark sun now?, NO; Bloody moon now, NO; Blood, fire, pillars of smoke?, Not from what I see. At best Peter was making a point with his audience and not saying that the time of Joel was upon them, because clearly it was not. If Peter meant Gentiles when he said "all" he would have said Gentiles.
Another point, You have been shown time and time again that Tongues has a different stopping point then Knowledge and Prophecy. Paul used a verb for the notion of cease that literally means "will fade out". Nothing happens to Tongues they just fade out. That is clear from looking at the Greek text. The verb for Prophecy and Knowledge stopping means that they will cease when something happens to them to make them cease. That being the coming of the "perfect", which is not what you say but is a different topic. Either way Tongues end on their own and Prophecy and Knowledge as gifts do not. You always ignore this point and pretend I haven't made it. Not just you Carol, and I don't want to single you out as most tongue speakers ignore this point, I think because it takes them by surprize.
Finally, above you say that I insist that God withdrew His Spirit. I don't believe that for a second. It was His Holy Spirit that worked through a couple people and drew me to a relationship with Jesus. His Holy Spirit is as active as ever. I believe that all but four of the gifts are still in operation and God gives gifts to the people of individual assemblies to complete the assemblies, like a human body is complete He equips local assemblies to be complete. I have received the Holy Spirit and am a changed person. You have made a whole theology out of a couple early church events, which even at that don't fully fit your beliefs, as evidenced by the question Don is waiting for you to answer.
In Christian Love,
Brian
26] And ye shall eat in plenty, and be satisfied, and praise the name of the LORD your God, that hath dealt wondrously with you: and my people shall never be ashamed.
[27] And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.
[28] And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
[29] And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
[30] And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
[31] The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
This is about Isreal and to try to make Peter say something to the Gentiles while quoting this is just poor logic. For one thing this hasn't happened yet. We know that because, well, read the verses I included. Dark sun now?, NO; Bloody moon now, NO; Blood, fire, pillars of smoke?, Not from what I see. At best Peter was making a point with his audience and not saying that the time of Joel was upon them, because clearly it was not. If Peter meant Gentiles when he said "all" he would have said Gentiles.
Another point, You have been shown time and time again that Tongues has a different stopping point then Knowledge and Prophecy. Paul used a verb for the notion of cease that literally means "will fade out". Nothing happens to Tongues they just fade out. That is clear from looking at the Greek text. The verb for Prophecy and Knowledge stopping means that they will cease when something happens to them to make them cease. That being the coming of the "perfect", which is not what you say but is a different topic. Either way Tongues end on their own and Prophecy and Knowledge as gifts do not. You always ignore this point and pretend I haven't made it. Not just you Carol, and I don't want to single you out as most tongue speakers ignore this point, I think because it takes them by surprize.
Finally, above you say that I insist that God withdrew His Spirit. I don't believe that for a second. It was His Holy Spirit that worked through a couple people and drew me to a relationship with Jesus. His Holy Spirit is as active as ever. I believe that all but four of the gifts are still in operation and God gives gifts to the people of individual assemblies to complete the assemblies, like a human body is complete He equips local assemblies to be complete. I have received the Holy Spirit and am a changed person. You have made a whole theology out of a couple early church events, which even at that don't fully fit your beliefs, as evidenced by the question Don is waiting for you to answer.
In Christian Love,
Brian
Just wondering if anyone can answer the questions that I asked?
Originally posted by music4Him:
Quote from Briguy:
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I have showed clearly that Acts 2:38,39 are not for us, unless of course you are Jewish.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I sorry and not to be hard headed, but not to me. I just backed up a little in Acts 2, from verse 14-41 Peter is exsplaining Pentecost (I'm supposing to those people mentioned in verses 8-13 to me looks like more nationalities than Jews mentioned there? Verse 22 says ye "men of Israel" , but could that be because they are all somewhere in Israel? Verse 36 says; Therefore let the house of Israel know assuredly.... but he is also speaking of David just a couple of verses up. But just a question...in Acts 2:17-21 where Peter is quoting from Joel, who is the "all flesh" and the "servents", and "handmaidens" mentioned that he is going to pour out His Spirit on? Isn't that the ones who call on the name of the Lord?
Quote by Briguy:
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And don't forget that these "tongues" were a sign to unbelieving Isreal that a judgement was coming. In 70ad judgement came and tongues faded away as they were predicted to do in 1 cor. 13
---------------------------------------------------------------------
You mean all this time I thought 1Cor.13 where instructions on how to exercise the gifts with love? I'm sorry if I misunerstood what you said here, but you make it sounds like all those gifts spoken of in 1Cor. ch.12 should be void for today? Then what do we do with all these people that have been healed? What do we do with all these smart people that have wisdom and knowledge? Do we tell them oops can't do that cause its not for you, that stopped in 70 A.D.? I guess I'm one that belives that the 9 gifts of the Spirit are still for today as long as we use them in love.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Acts 10:34-35~
Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: 35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
Hebrews 13:8~
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Music4Him
Just wondering if anyone can answer the questions that I asked?
Originally posted by music4Him:
Quote from Briguy:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have showed clearly that Acts 2:38,39 are not for us, unless of course you are Jewish.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I sorry and not to be hard headed, but not to me. I just backed up a little in Acts 2, from verse 14-41 Peter is exsplaining Pentecost (I'm supposing to those people mentioned in verses 8-13 to me looks like more nationalities than Jews mentioned there? Verse 22 says ye "men of Israel" , but could that be because they are all somewhere in Israel? Verse 36 says; Therefore let the house of Israel know assuredly.... but he is also speaking of David just a couple of verses up. But just a question...in Acts 2:17-21 where Peter is quoting from Joel, who is the "all flesh" and the "servents", and "handmaidens" mentioned that he is going to pour out His Spirit on? Isn't that the ones who call on the name of the Lord?
Quote by Briguy:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And don't forget that these "tongues" were a sign to unbelieving Isreal that a judgement was coming. In 70ad judgement came and tongues faded away as they were predicted to do in 1 cor. 13
---------------------------------------------------------------------
You mean all this time I thought 1Cor.13 where instructions on how to exercise the gifts with love? I'm sorry if I misunerstood what you said here, but you make it sounds like all those gifts spoken of in 1Cor. ch.12 should be void for today? Then what do we do with all these people that have been healed? What do we do with all these smart people that have wisdom and knowledge? Do we tell them oops can't do that cause its not for you, that stopped in 70 A.D.? I guess I'm one that belives that the 9 gifts of the Spirit are still for today as long as we use them in love.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Acts 10:34-35~
Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: 35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
Hebrews 13:8~
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Music4Him
Originally posted by Briguy:
[QB] Carol, don't have much time but look at Joel 2:
26] And ye shall eat in plenty, and be satisfied, and praise the name of the LORD your God, that hath dealt wondrously with you: and my people shall never be ashamed.
[27] And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.
[28] And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
[29] And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
[30] And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
[31] The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
*** Brian, don't you think that there is a time frame between verse 29 and 30-31, of Joel 2?
This is about Isreal and to try to make Peter say something to the Gentiles while quoting this is just poor logic.
*** Not poor logic, IMO. The Spirit of God was given to the Gentiles. (Acts 10) What is being said in Joel 2:29-31, is still in the future.
Another point, You have been shown time and time again that Tongues has a different stopping point then Knowledge and Prophecy.
***Brian, I know that tongues will cease, but NOT UNTIL the close of the Gentile dispensation. Why would God remove the evidence of one receiving the baptism of the Holy Ghost, before He returns for His bride?
MEE
Oh music4Him, you sound like a happy person!Originally posted by music4Him:
Thanks MeeI thought I broke the board or something and I didn't want to sound like a broken record. LOL
I looked at your profile and found that you like like playing music. If you want, since you are in the (I think) the central time zone, click on to this link, on Sunday. www.christtemplechurch.net
It is our church's web site. If you can pick it up, it is live, from 9:00 AM, 11:00 AM, and 6:00 PM EST. We've had to go to three services on Sunday to accomodate the people.
To the left, click where it says enhanced or static..depending on you plugin. There you will hear some of the best must a church has to offer. We are in big demand everywhere. Not bragging, but our choir, accompanied with the annointing of the Holy Ghost, is just plain wonderful!
Try it, you'll like it.
MEE