Indeed - they are correct it is the FACE of the LAMB that they are seeing in the coulds of heaven.
This is unquestionably the return - the appearing of Christ SEEN in Rev 6.
Keep in mind that The Seals of Rev.6 parallel Christ's prophecy in Matt. 24. V.30 he says first that they shall see the "SIGN of the Son of Man", first, then He will come in the clouds, and gather the elect at the trumpet sound. In this verse are the 6th and 7th seal together. So they first see the sign in the sky, then, as we enter Rev. 7, the people of God (144,000 from Israel + innumerable company from all nations) are "SEALED", (just as those not with god wil receive the mark of the beast, but not yet be receiving their punishment). Now, v.15 says they are already before the throne of God in the Temple, which I will admit I glossed over before. There are different ways of interpreting this. It is possible then, that Ch. 14, like 12 and 13, then are simply stepping back from the time flow, and highlighting in more detail previously mentioned events. But then this would prove the Pre-Wrath position. Or, if the angel was only relaying what he sees in the future (the saints are not really at the throne at that time, and ch.14 shows their actual reaping), then the mid-wrath position is still possible. This method is used elsewhere, such as with some of the heads of the beasts, which are seen not in John's time, but the future. Or, it must be a sucession of raptures/resurrections, beginning with those in ch.6 and the beginning of ch.14 who are specified as coming out of the tribulation (i.e. went through it as believers), and then the rest who are finally "reaped" (apparently getting saved later in the tribulation).
But then in none of these cases is the rapture post-tribulational (meaning after the trumpets AND bowls).
You claim the same things are mentioned over and over several times in "segments", and this is possible with ch.6 amd 14, but still does not lead to a posttrib view. In those two chapters and ch. 19, we still see a progression: First they are sealed, then they stand on Mt. Zion with Him, as the harvest occurs, then they are with Him following Him back down. That is not all the same exact event.
It is INDIVIDUAL - "AnyONE" and "HE TOO will drink of the wrath of God" it is INDIVIDUAL specific!!
And YES - this torment will occur ENTIRELY in the presence of the Lamb and of His saints just as the Bible says.
Yes, it is individual torment, and it is in the presence of the Lamb, but eternal Hell is separation from God.
And YES it is THE torment of FIRE and Brimstone that is also recorded in Rev 20. There is NO reference to FIRE and BRIMSTONE as a plauge/bowl-judgment in Rev 16 though you propose that it should be inserted there.
The fire and brimstone is at the Supper of God. Though Rev. 19 doesn't mention "fire and brimstone", but 2 Thess.2:8 mentions being consumed with the brightness of His coming, and Zech.14:12 mentions their flesh being consumed. In the fourth bow, also, they are scorched with fire, and Babylon is also burned with fire. Exekiel 38:22 fire and brimstone are rained down as well. People may think this is post-millenial, sinc Gog and Magog are mentioned there, but the rest of the details match Armageddon. (The post-millenial Gog and Magog are believed to be descendants of the pre-millenial ones. Of course, post-mils and a-mils will say something similar to what you are saying-- that it is the same thing repeated.) Fire and brimstone were even used in the sixth trumpet.
Speaking of people surviving Armageddon:
Clearly this is the START of His RULE
The nations are subdued here - in fact they are wiped out. ALL people are destroyed.
The verse you quoted says He will rule them with an iron scepter, and we will of course rule with Him. But if there's no one left, who will be there to be ruled? Generally, people take "all people" to mean people of all nations, and "the rest were killed" to mean those actively fighting. This may be wrong, but then what is your take on the Millennial reign? Do you take the Adventist position that the earth will be completely empty? And then what about those deceived by the Devil at the end of the Millenium, but before the resurrection of the wicked? Where did they come from?
