Why the usual tired old "Darby" rebuttal can RIP....

Nice montra

Would you like to address the specifics?
Or are you content to just sing the top
level stuff. My top level statement is:

Jesus is coming to get me at the exact
beginning of the 70th week of Daniel
(AKA: Tribulation period, Day of the Lord,
etc.) which is at the end of the Church
Age (AKA: Gentile Age, this present evil
time, etc.) in the pretribulation
rapture/resurrection. He will come at
theend of the 70th week of Daniel to
destroy the Antichrist and his works.
All this is totally scriptural (i got it
from the scriputre, not from Darby,
not from Scofield.

I do know a joke about Scofield, sing this
to the tune of ON CHRIST THE SOLID ROCK:

My hope is built on nothing less,
Than Schofield's notes and Broadman Press!

(Sorry, Brodman Press, later Baptist Press,
now LifeWay, is the printing house of
The Southern Baptist Convention (SBC).

 

Right on LE 1 Corinthians 15: 20-24 NKJV

I am looking forward to being a part of the first resurrection. Maranatha

Bro Tony

 

I always wondered how pretrib people account for the 2000+ year hiatus in between the 69th and 70th weeks of Daniel!

 

It was not the pretrib people who placed a break between the 69th and 70th week, the Scripture does in Daniel 9. The question is not if there is a break but the length of the break. Even the full preterist has an approximately 40 year break from when the Messiah is cut off and the fullfilment of the 70th week.

Bro Tony

 

Fortunately Paul explaines
it better than i can:

Romans 11:25-26 (HCSB):

So that you will not be conceited, brothers,
I do not want you to be unaware of this secret:
a partial hardening has come to Israel until
the full number of the Gentiles has come in.
26 And in this way all Israel will be saved, ...

The 70th week works much better this way than
to strech it in the preterist manner.
To be a preterist you have to expand the 2½-year
public ministry of Jesus into 3½-years.
Then you have to compact the years from 33AD to 70AD
(that is 27 years, 30 if you think Jesus was born
prior to 25 Dec 0001AD.) down to 3½-years.
But hey, in the tradition of the Roman Catholic Church
(RCC) we compact 3 full days and 3 full nights into
Friday evening about 5PM to Sunday Morning about 5AM
(it is only 36 hours NOT 72 hours) and nobody gets
bent out of shape about that. So a little stretching
or shrinking time is frequent anyway.

Minority report: some preterists say the first 3½-years
was the ministry of Jesus and the second 3½-years
was the seige of Jerusalem: 67-70AD (3½-years). To bad
General Titus didn't show up until late 68AD

 

Link: "The fact that Paul warned the Thesalonians not to
think the time had come before the man of sin was revealed
indicates that he expected Christians to be around when the
man of sin was revealed. If it were not posible in Paul's
view of things for the Thessalonians he was writing to to
be around when the man of sin was revealed, why would he have written it."

I believe the rapture will occur on one 24-hour day
and the Antichrist will be revealed the next 24-hour day.
So we agree - yes?

Link: "Jesus spoke of two resurrections. Blessed is he who partakes of the first resurrection. Two resurrections occur at the end of the whole story about the Tribulation, the beast, etc. at the _end_ of the book of Revelation. The first resurrection occurs long before the Second, but in the chronoloyg of Revelation, it is still after the Tribulation."

I show from the Bible two resurrections jointly called the
"first Resurrection" Here is my teaching:
BTW, Darby does not agree with Ed
----------------------------------------
\o/ Glory to the Lord \o/

\o/ Praise be to Jesus \o/

Five Resurrections
Found in the Holy Bible
Compared and Contrasted

The Lord God is a resurrecting God.

Definitions:

New Testament: God's contract on goy
Old Testament: God's contract on Yisrael
Resurrection: a person who was dead is alive
Saint: a person on God's list (AKA: Book of Life)
Tribulation: AKA: The Time of Jacob's Trouble (Jeremiah 30:4-7);
Yisarel passing under the rod (Ezekiel 20:34-3;
Melting Pot (Ezekiel 22:19-22);
Time of Trouble (Daniel 12:1); etc.
Resurrection: a person who was dead is alive
goy - Yisraeli term for gentiles (probably slightly derogotory)
Yisrael - Transliteration of the Hebrew term for "Israel" into English.

How to get on God's list:

Romans 10:9 (KJV): That if thou
shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt
believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from
the dead, thou shalt be saved.


1. Resurrection of Jesus
WHO: Jesus
WHEN: 33AD
WHERE: Jerusalem
WHY: The Lord God is a resurrecting God.
HOW: The Grace of God through Messiah Jesus
WHAT: Raised to Life Eternal; because of the
resurrection of Jesus, all the other resurrections
are possible
References: Matthew 28:6, Mark 16:6, Luke 24:6-8


2. Resurrection of some Old Testament Saints
WHO: Some of those who died before Jesus believeing God, especially
those who believed in God's Messiah
WHEN: 33AD
WHERE: mostly in Jerusalem
WHY: The Lord God is a resurrecting God.
HOW: The Grace of God through Messiah Jesus
WHAT: Raised to Life Eternal

3. Resurrection of the New Testament Saints
WHO: Church age (AKA: times of the Gentiles) Saints; balance
of the Old Testament Saints
WHEN: Some date after 26 May 2004;
at the end of the Church Age; at the beginning of
the Tribulation
WHERE: Worldwide
WHY: The Lord God is a resurrecting God.
HOW: The Grace of God through Messiah Jesus
WHAT: Raised to Life Eternal;
this resurrection is followed in but a
moment by the translation of the living
saints into a glorified heavenly body like
that of Jesus
References: 1 Corinthians 15:52, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

4. Resurrection of the Tribulation Saints
WHO: Those beheaded for faith in Jesus; those
who reject the Mark of the Beast
WHEN: at the end of the Tribulation; at the
beginning of the 1,000-year reign of Jesus
WHERE: worldwide
WHY: The Lord God is a resurrecting God.
HOW: The Grace of God through Messiah Jesus
WHAT: Raised to Life Eternal
References: Revelation 20:4-6,

5. Resurrection of the non-Saints
WHO: All those throughout time who have rejected Jesus
WHEN: At the close of the 1,000-year reign of Jesus;
at the beginning of eternity
WHERE: worldwide
WHY: i don't know, God does
HOW: i don't know, God does
WHAT: Raised to eternal shame & damnation
References: Revelation 20:12-15

NOTE: The delineation of the five revealed
resurrections above
does not preclude other resurrections. The Lord God
is a resurrecting God and His hand is not shortened
by his revelation to us or
by our understaning of His revelation to us.
For example: Two Witnesses shall
be resurrected in the middle of the Tribulation.

There is a pastoral picture of the four resurrections
for which the resurrection of Jesus was a precusor
(numbered here as above):

2. The First Fruits (Matthew 27:22-53)

3. The Harvest (1 Corinthians 15:51-54, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17)

4. The Gleanings (Revelation 7:14, 20:4)

5. The Tares (Matthew 13:28-30)

Sometimes the Holy Bible calls resurrections 2-4, the resurrections
of the just: The First Resurrection (because all the
resurrections of the just preceede the resurrection
of the unjust).

The following scriptures seem to imply a simultaneous
resurrection of the just and the wicked dead:
Daniel 12:2, John 5:28-29 (all resurrected
in the same hour), Acts 24:15. Revelation 20-4-6
cleary notes that the just are raised one day
(a 1,000 year long day) before the unjust.

CAUTION: The numbering scheme 1 to 5 above was arbitrarliy
assigned to enable the discussion. There is nothing
sacred or Biblical about this numbering scheme.

May Jesus our Savior and our Master be Praised!

Note that ressurrections #2 and #3 are accompanied
by a rapture of living saints.

--compilation by ed, incurable Jesus Phreaque
---------------------------------------------

 

I don't - because I am going to raise a technical point. There is a resurrection before the "first resurrection" - when the two witnesses are raised from the dead in the streets of Jerusalem, mid-point of the Great Tribulation.

Therefore, the words "first" resurrection do not mean the first resurrection that takes place, but the first of it's kind. Just as the first of it's kind resurrection when the saints are raised from the dead at the sound of the trumpet and then we which are alive and remain go to meet Him in the air!

So you see, it all lines up perfectly with Scripture. </font>[/QUOTE]Yeah, right. Paul says--as you well know and everyone else well knows--that the dead in Christ will be raised first and then the living will be caught up. Firstfruits and the first resurrection are clearly defined as two different things. One pre-trib advocate even went so far as to inform me that there are two resurrections. I agreed.

Cleverness does not count. The first resurrection is the one of the good that happens at the time of the rapture which John says takes place after Satan is bound in the pit for 1000 years.

 

Where does John say this Church Mouse guy? I'm not saying he doesn't, but can you give me scripture. Please?

 

Church mouse guy: "The first resurrection is the one of the good
that happens at the time of the rapture which John says
takes place after Satan is bound in the pit for 1000 years."

Church mouse guy: "The first resurrection is the one of the good ... "

True. That is the defintion of "first resurrection". As shown
above there are multiple resurrecitons incuded in "first
resurrection" and for good measure for sure one and maybe two
raptures. BTW, there is nothing about "first" that cannot be
applied to multiple member sets. Though most people who haven't
have anything past grade school arithemetic don't understand it,
there is a difference between "first" and "one". It has to
do with order and value.

Church mouse guy: "the first resurrecion ... happens at
the time of the rapture ... "

Actually, for each rapture, there is a resurreciton immediately
presceeding it. All resurrections of the just occur before
Satan is bound for 1,000 years.

Church mouse guy: " ... John says
takes place after Satan is bound in the pit for 1000 years"

John says the first resurrection all takes place befor
Satan is bound.
says weighs more to me than Darby.

 

Amen, Sister LadyEagle -- Preach it!

 

Here again the confusion on the part of those who hold the pre-trib doctrine prevails. Some say that when the rapture occurs the dead in Christ are raised first. Others say that the first resurrection that John mentions is the resurrection of Tribulation saints at the end of the Tribulation. Now we are told that the first resurrection is that of Jesus or that of the 2 witnesses.

But are you mixed up about the 1000 years? John says that the dead in Christ are raised just before the 1000 years begins.

I don't watch Clinton News Network so I won't be sending you a PM.

What desperately needs to be done is for someone to issue a standard pre-trib doctrinal statement and explanation so that we do not have so many variations to deal with.

 

Church Mouse Guy: "What desperately needs to be done
is for someone to issue a standard pre-trib doctrinal
statement and explanation so that we do not have so
many variations to deal with. "

Fat chance. Remember the saying:
If you want four doctrines, ask three Baptists.]
Come on, no two of us pretribs agree on the same exact eschatology
yet we all read the same scriptures.
What would be interesting is for Church mouse guy to
tell us his eschatology so we can pick it to pieces

Until then, take only statements made here. Don't assume
that i've studied millionare Tim LaHaye's books or that i
even argue like him. Thank you for cooperating.

 

Church mouse guy: "The first resurrection is the one of the good
that happens at the time of the rapture which John says
takes place after Satan is bound in the pit for 1000 years."

Did I say that or do your quotation marks just refer to your point counterpoint, Ed?

I don't say that John says that the rapture takes place after Satan is bound just before the 1000 years begins. I say that John says that the first resurrection takes place at that time.

Most people say that the first resurrection is the resurrection of the good or the dead in Christ. And most people say that the resurrection of the dead in Christ happens a split second before the rapture.

The second resurrection is the resurrection of the damned--it happens at the end of the 1000 years.

 

I fully intend to start a post-trib thread before the end of the year. I have misplaced my notes on the subject at the moment, but I will be glad to expound the doctrine of the post-tribulation rapture from the Scripture.

 

here is what you said, cut and pasted:

Phillip is confused by it and says:
"Where does John say this Church Mouse guy? I'm not saying
he doesn't, but can you give me scripture. Please?"

Of course, what you meant to say, well
tell us, i no sometimes i get konfuzed 2.

 

LadyEagle,

When he finds the notes, I'm next in line behind you guys!