SolaSaint
Well-Known Member
I would say 6 foot under. lol:thumbs:
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why this love of the puritans?
- Thread starter nodak
- Start date
I would say 6 foot under. lol:thumbs:
preacher4truth
Active Member
Certainly the Puritans were as human as we are. There is a diamond in the rough here: they were true believers with faults, but still fought for holiness, the same as many of us here, whether in our own personal lives or otherwise, and none of us are without fault, no matter how we try to come across online. 
The OP goes to the extreme side and assumes that those who enjoy the Puritan writings, which would include me, WORSHIP them, something many anti/non cals/arminians and others enjoy to cast upon the Cal brothers to deride. Typically worship of Calvin is thrown in for good measure.
As far as the works of the Puritans, I glean much from their writings, and not all of them were of the extreme caliber the OP attempts to paint them in. In fact, the OP is a strawman concerning the reality of Puritanism as a whole, yet the OP is exemplary of the typical behavior of those against Calvinism/DoG.
If any person hasn't read the writings of the Puritans you're missing out on some tremendous insights they had. Just think, they didn't have all the distractions we have today, and seemed devoted to study of the Word and prayer.
To answer the OP, we are to love the Puritans because we are instructed to love our brothers. In addition we are to pray for those who persecute us, but keep in mind not all the Puritans are represented in, nor painted with the broad brush of the OP.
:wavey: :love2:
The OP goes to the extreme side and assumes that those who enjoy the Puritan writings, which would include me, WORSHIP them, something many anti/non cals/arminians and others enjoy to cast upon the Cal brothers to deride. Typically worship of Calvin is thrown in for good measure.
As far as the works of the Puritans, I glean much from their writings, and not all of them were of the extreme caliber the OP attempts to paint them in. In fact, the OP is a strawman concerning the reality of Puritanism as a whole, yet the OP is exemplary of the typical behavior of those against Calvinism/DoG.
If any person hasn't read the writings of the Puritans you're missing out on some tremendous insights they had. Just think, they didn't have all the distractions we have today, and seemed devoted to study of the Word and prayer.
To answer the OP, we are to love the Puritans because we are instructed to love our brothers. In addition we are to pray for those who persecute us, but keep in mind not all the Puritans are represented in, nor painted with the broad brush of the OP.
:wavey: :love2:
preacher4truth
Active Member
SolaSaint
Well-Known Member
As far as examples of abuse and legalism in churches in the 17th century, I think all denominations did the same back then. Catholics killed heretics and Protestants did as well. It wasn't restricted to just the Puritans.
Also I wasn't aware of Quakers being Puritans.
Also I wasn't aware of Quakers being Puritans.
No, it was the Quakers and Baptists who suffered at the hands of the Puritans.
"all denominations of Christians have, in their time, persecuted, except the Society of Friends and the Baptists, and it has been shrewdly hinted that we Baptists have never done so because we have never had the chance; but this is scarcely correct, for Roger Williams certainly had an opportunity in Rhode Island, to have set up a Baptist state religion, but he spurned the thought." —Charles Spurgeon, "George Fox"
"Persecuted alike by Romanists and Protestants of almost every sect, yet there has never existed a Government holding Baptist principles which persecuted others; nor, I believe, any body of Baptists ever held it to be right to put the consciences of others under the control of man. We have ever been ready to suffer as our martyrologies will prove, but we are not ready to accept any help from the State to prostitute the purity of the Bride of Christ to any alliance with Government! And we will never make the Church, although the Queen, the despot over the consciences of men." —Charles Spurgeon, "Public Meeting of Our London Baptist Brethren"
"Puritan liberty of conscience meant, “The right and liberty to think as they did, but no toleration to those who differed.” The Puritans of New England as soon as ever a Baptist made his appearance among them, persecuted him with as little compunction as the Episcopalians had the Puritans! No sooner was there a Baptist, than he was hunted up, and brought before his own Christian brethren! Mark you, he was brought up for fine, for imprisonment,confiscation, and banishment" —Charles Spurgeon, "Fire! Fire! Fire!"
"The Sabbath in Puritan New England, by Alice Morse Earle, probably contains the last inscription written by the Pastor, and a very expressive one it is :— "An amusing but saddening book. The seamy side of New England religion exposed. . .— C. H. Spurgeon, Dec, 1891." —Spurgeon's Autobiography
"all denominations of Christians have, in their time, persecuted, except the Society of Friends and the Baptists, and it has been shrewdly hinted that we Baptists have never done so because we have never had the chance; but this is scarcely correct, for Roger Williams certainly had an opportunity in Rhode Island, to have set up a Baptist state religion, but he spurned the thought." —Charles Spurgeon, "George Fox"
"Persecuted alike by Romanists and Protestants of almost every sect, yet there has never existed a Government holding Baptist principles which persecuted others; nor, I believe, any body of Baptists ever held it to be right to put the consciences of others under the control of man. We have ever been ready to suffer as our martyrologies will prove, but we are not ready to accept any help from the State to prostitute the purity of the Bride of Christ to any alliance with Government! And we will never make the Church, although the Queen, the despot over the consciences of men." —Charles Spurgeon, "Public Meeting of Our London Baptist Brethren"
"Puritan liberty of conscience meant, “The right and liberty to think as they did, but no toleration to those who differed.” The Puritans of New England as soon as ever a Baptist made his appearance among them, persecuted him with as little compunction as the Episcopalians had the Puritans! No sooner was there a Baptist, than he was hunted up, and brought before his own Christian brethren! Mark you, he was brought up for fine, for imprisonment,confiscation, and banishment" —Charles Spurgeon, "Fire! Fire! Fire!"
"The Sabbath in Puritan New England, by Alice Morse Earle, probably contains the last inscription written by the Pastor, and a very expressive one it is :— "An amusing but saddening book. The seamy side of New England religion exposed. . .— C. H. Spurgeon, Dec, 1891." —Spurgeon's Autobiography
I am a bit more sympathetic to some of the anabaptists, because of the attacks from the Rc's and the protestants...anabaptists had error...but no one needed to drown them for it. We really do not have a good grasp of what it must have been like to live then.....maybe a group of muslims that gets saved in saudi arabia....would give us a sense of it....they would believe in Jesus...their theology might be inconsistent,not having open access to much teaching...so they would have truth with error more than would be normal.
Certainly the Puritans were as human as we are. There is a diamond in the rough here: they were true believers with faults, but still fought for holiness, the same as many of us here, whether in our own personal lives or otherwise, and none of us are without fault, no matter how we try to come across online.
The OP goes to the extreme side and assumes that those who enjoy the Puritan writings, which would include me, WORSHIP them, something many anti/non cals/arminians and others enjoy to cast upon the Cal brothers to deride. Typically worship of Calvin is thrown in for good measure.
As far as the works of the Puritans, I glean much from their writings, and not all of them were of the extreme caliber the OP attempts to paint them in. In fact, the OP is a strawman concerning the reality of Puritanism as a whole, yet the OP is exemplary of the typical behavior of those against Calvinism/DoG.
If any person hasn't read the writings of the Puritans you're missing out on some tremendous insights they had. Just think, they didn't have all the distractions we have today, and seemed devoted to study of the Word and prayer.
To answer the OP, we are to love the Puritans because we are instructed to love our brothers. In addition we are to pray for those who persecute us, but keep in mind not all the Puritans are represented in, nor painted with the broad brush of the OP.
:wavey: :love2:
Well said P4T......it is a shame if people will not read and learn from the rich teaching offered. Even if someone was opposed to what they taught...it would be quite instructive to work through and show where you believe error was .
We need to seperate what was good from what was bad. Even Jesus said of the pharisees....
A big part of the trouble of understanding, let alone agreeing, with the religiously intense of past eras is that people see their own doctrine and practice as correct, or they wouldn't be involved in it. Later generations will see them as a step, either toward greater or lesser correctness, while it's their own (the 'present' generation) that is 'correct.' And do people of any generation really know how much they take in from the prevalent ideas around them (the Puritans); either that, or they attack prevalent ideas around them in emphasizing their uniqueness (Quakers, Baptists...and Puritans/Separatists).
If this world lasts another 3 centuries, are American Baptists of conservative doctrinal persuasion going to be seen as having been correct theologically? No way, I 'm sure. We will be looked upon most likely as a negative step holding back 'progress' and tying our conservative tenets to conservative politics, conservative business, too unconcerned about living healthily and environmentally. A minority may become fans of ours and have annual picnics with fried chicken, apple pie, and sweet tea, playing horseshoes and washers. But either way, one generation's end is another's means, or steps.
[note: I do not assume that all who read this are conservative]
If this world lasts another 3 centuries, are American Baptists of conservative doctrinal persuasion going to be seen as having been correct theologically? No way, I 'm sure. We will be looked upon most likely as a negative step holding back 'progress' and tying our conservative tenets to conservative politics, conservative business, too unconcerned about living healthily and environmentally. A minority may become fans of ours and have annual picnics with fried chicken, apple pie, and sweet tea, playing horseshoes and washers. But either way, one generation's end is another's means, or steps.
[note: I do not assume that all who read this are conservative]