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Why would Paul tell Christians not to do sins they are incapable of doing?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by IfbReformer, Feb 23, 2007.

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  1. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    ituttut;
    Let me apoligize for my lack of understanding. Sometimes I think I understand you and other times I do not. I read were Jesus came to His own (Israel) and taught His apostles and sent them to Israel saying "repent ye for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand". After He arose from the grave, He sent His apostles unto the whole world saying "preach the Gospel to every creature and he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved".
    I believe it to be the same Gospel and "faith" being what they must have, for He said "except ye believe that I am He, ye shall die in your sins and where I am you cannot come. I think Paul, preached the same Gospel for He preached to both Israel and the Gentiles. I believe those of Israel that received Christ and the believing Gentiles were brought together to make one, and they all must believe and repent and be baptized by the Holy Ghost. Also, they need to be baptized in the water to answer a good consecious towards God, and not the putting away the filth of the flesh.
     
    #241 Brother Bob, Feb 28, 2007
  2. ituttut

    ituttut New Member

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    I agree that is what it says, and in Acts 2:41 they were water baptized just as Peter instructed in verse 38. This baptism, with repentance, was for the remission of their sins. At this time there was not that other gospel of believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved by the Grace of God Through faith, without a work. This last gospel is just not known until later.

    What I do not agree with is our believing in the "great commission", for it says more than what we are willing to acknowledge. I say we Baptist don't agree that we must repent and be water baptized for the remission of our sins. This is not what any of us preach, so why do we give credence to it? In covenant theology we notice salvation is identified with Israel, the nation of God. We see this from the seed of Abraham until Damascus Road. Today all of our attention is to be on our Lord Jesus Christ. For our salvation we identify with Him by faith, for through His faith we are saved.

    I believe the "great commission" to be that other gospel (yet not another gospel) which Paul addresses in Galatians 1:6-9. Paul speaks of the "Body Church", and that other gospel of Jesus Christ is the "Kingdom Church" - "The "Kingdom of Heaven" gospel of the "Kingdom that was at Hand". We see this in such verses as Matthew 3:2, 10:7, and others.


    This is the reason I say I look for the rapture, and not the Kingdom of Heaven for I don't believe it is now next on the agenda. That "Kingdom will come", but not until after we are "caught up". As I believe in the "dispensational gospel given to Paul" it follows I believe in Premillennialism. Those of "covenant" belief can be Pre, Post, or A- (or No).

    We have many debates on "free will", and I vote Yes for in Christ we do have "free will". I believe the "Pre, the Post, and A-may get their wish. I plan on being raptured (dead or alive) before the "great tribulation", and the Post could very well go through the tribulation, and the A-'s can then show up at the judgment.
    Who can disagree with "except ye believe that I am He". But I disagree that Paul preached the same gospel as John the Baptist, and Jesus, and Peter, and John, and James to the Gentiles. Again notice that Paul and Barnabas by revelation went to Jerusalem to gain concession from the Jerusalem church to not interfere with their ministry to the Gentile. All the Apostles of Jerusalem agreed they would not preach their gospel to the Gentiles. This is scripture so I must believe that.

    And what you point to as Peter speaks of a good conscience I also must believe. But left standing as is, how can we believe what Paul says, and what Peter says, and bring into harmony? I say we can't. Paul says he is the Apostle to the Gentile. Peter never comes close to saying any such thing to us. In fact He along with those with the gospel of the "Kingdom Church", say they will not try to force their gospel on us (Acts 15 and Galatians 2). This is just as the Book of Hebrews is written to the Jew, and not us. Neither Hebrews nor Peter's books are written to the Gentile, except for proselysation, as it is not written to us.
     
    #242 ituttut, Mar 1, 2007
  3. His Blood Spoke My Name

    His Blood Spoke My Name New Member

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    Paul taught and preached Christ's Gospel. He stated that which he taught and preached he did not receive it by man, but by the Holy Ghost.

    Jesus said the Holy Ghost would testify of Him. So the Holy Ghost taught Christ's Gospel to Paul and that is what Paul preached and taught to others.
     
    #243 His Blood Spoke My Name, Mar 1, 2007
  4. ituttut

    ituttut New Member

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    Amen. It is another gospel for this dispensation that was not available in other dispensations
     
    #244 ituttut, Mar 1, 2007
  5. IfbReformer

    IfbReformer New Member

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    Brother Bob,

    Once again I apologize for taking so long to respond, but things have been busy at work and home.

    I do realize that there are saved and unsaved in the church today as there were in Paul's day. That is not the issue, I am sorry, I just don't by your these were coded messages for unbelievers. The clear reading of the text within its context is talking to believers.

    Lets look at I Corinthians 6 as an example:

    If what you are saying is true that Paul was coding his message for believers and unbelievers, why would he not take the opportunity here to tell us that? He is worried about disputes between BELIEVERS, not unbelievers and believers.


    So these believers were clearly doing things wrong, as we will see even in the next part of this passage about sexual immorality, the first part Paul was dealing with lawsuits, then he got into other sins that BELIEVERS were commiting.

    This is a powerful testament to positional sanctification when we understand this passage correctly. God saw us as a sinner(whether it be a adulterer, slander, drunkard or whatever sins we may commit before we are saved - but after we were washed, sanctified,justified and saved he sees the righteousness of Christ upon us.

    This is why as soon as we are saved, from a legal perspective, we are considered righteous and holy. Yet from a practical perspective, we still live in these fleshly bodies are waiting for our glorified bodies when we will know sin no more.

    So yes this is list(vs 9 & 10) of sins is why unbelievers will not inherit the kingdom of God. But how can a believer not inherit the Kingdom of God by doing these things if we have been justified and our sins will longer be counted against us(for salvation) but we now have the inputed righteousness of Christ?

    Paul clearly tells his receipients that they are members of Christ himself, he does not tell them they may be members of Christ. He tells them that if they were to be with a prostitute that would be uniting Christ with a prostitute - something Paul found to be disgusting - This is something a Christian SHOULD never do.

    But then he tells these same believers whom he calls members of Christ and whose bodies are the temple of Holy Spirit that they should not give their bodies to such things and to honor God with their bodies.

    Yet you would have us believer we should not preach this to believers because it is impossible for them to do these things even though Paul apparently thought it was possible and thought it important to warn them from falling into sin.

    This is not theorical as you are trying to say it is, it is a very practical warning that I would always teach to believers under me.

    I think it is very dangerous for us to try and convince ourselves that we are not capable of doing certain sins, for when clearly we are warned against them.

    And I see you keep quoting Ephesians 2:2 as if this passage or others like it are saying Christians are incapable of a certain list of heinous sins. I know you would not say these are saying we are sinless, but you think these somehow make all these other passages where the Apostles tell believers not to do whole lists of sins not really,really talking to believers.

    "Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:"

    What does it mean to walk according to the course of this world? Paul explained our previous state in Romans 6:
    When we walked according to the curse of this world, we were free from the control of righteousness. Our mind was completely hostile toward God, we could not submit to his law.

    But now when we are saved, God justifies us, gives us an alien rightousness in no way connected to our own righteouness(even after we are saved) - it is the righteousness of Christ. He no longer sees us as a sinner, he sees in us the righteousness of Christ. We now have the ability(through the power of the Holy Spirit) to obey God's righteousness. But as Paul pointed out in the next chapter(Romans 7) we do not always yield to the Spirit as we should. In fact sometimes believers can grieve the Holy Spirit who indwells them as Ephesians 4 states.

    I hope you will come to understand this wonderful truth.

    IFBReformer
     
    #245 IfbReformer, Mar 2, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 2, 2007
  6. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    He also don't see us doing those things either. IMO

    I am sorry IFBReformer; I think you certainly sincere in your belief but I still find that Paul knew He could not be the only one spreading the word so He taught all of them the believers what they should be teaching others now that they were no longer guilty of such things.
    Christians are Christ-like, and that means the are pretty good people since they been cleaned up and washed.
    After reading your posts, I would say you are not guilty of these things, but are just clearing the way for those who may be committing such acts. I think what is wrong with the churches today is that you can't tell them from the world. People are hungry for clean life, not someone to say what they are doing is covered up by the blood. No, I think that would be a dishonor to the blood of Christ to get forgiveness of adultery by the blood and to continue in sin. Paul said Nay, shall we sin that Grace abounds, no how can you any longer walk therein. God Bless, you are a very nice person it seems. You are able to talk to me without me getting riled as I do with some of the others. :)
     
    #246 Brother Bob, Mar 2, 2007
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