Why?

[Matt Black]

And at the same time these governments have completely ignored the Magna Carta, which I believe is supposed to guarantee your right to bear arms.

English translation of Magna Carta Where?

folks are now not even allowed own 5 shot revolvers and I read time after time stories of people getting stabbed to death IN THEIR OWN HOMES and they are unable to fight back.

Very rare.

How about al the shootings I also hear about in "gun free" Britain?

Likewise rare and tend to be gang related ie: one vriminal with abgun shotting another criminal with a gun

Do I have to also mention all the acid attacks that now are now a routine occurrence too?

And how exactly is a guy with a gun in a nightclub supposed to stop someone who's just thrown avid at him (our latest acid attack)? More likely someone innocent would be killed.

Your society is as violent and dangerous as my own.

Mostly yes, with one important exception: I know my kids won't get massacred at school by a gunman when I kiss them goodbye. Can you say the same?

There have been a couple of cases where the victim was arrested, charged and brought to trial. Thankfully here in America most incidents of that type don't get that far.

Evidence?

I know it's hard for you to understand our relationship with guns.

You bet!

We had to use them to drive a certain foreign power from our shores when they would not leave peaceably.

You see, we can hang that drum too: we had to repel a foreign foe more deadly than yours and more recently. We then demobilised.

They were an integral part of the expansion of the nation by settlers, first on the East Coast in the late 1600's and 1700's, and then out into the western lands. We view them as a tool to be used in everyday day life from hunting, self-defense, and plain old target shooting and plinking at cans.

...and killing schoolchildren it would appear.

Firearms are estimated to be used over a million times yearly for self defense in this nation and the places with most of the illegal use of them are in the cities with the highest forms of gun controls. Being a realistic person, I think that this time there just might be some additional laws concerning these weapons which in the end will do little to stop any more shootings. With millions of guns in circulation the cat is out of the bag on this issue and that is the reality. We need to harden the school environment and that could mean arming teachers, metal detectors, other armed personnel, and limiting entering and leaving areas.

"The only answer to a bad toddler with a gun is a good toddler with a gun."

[QUOTE ]The fact is from easily accessible abortions, to violent video games and movies our nation has indeed become a culture of death. Add to that the removal of God from our schools, rampant mental illness and drug use, broken families, and a lack of respect for authority and the nation at large and we have some serious problems that is for sure.[/QUOTE] Agree with you there...as do we. But why not remove one part of your problem by reducing the number of guns in circulation? Just because one part of a mechanism is broke doesn't mean that you neglect other parts.

 

[Matt Black]

Sir, I'm not referring to human beings as such: I'm talking about a religion. I raise and sell sheep for slaughter and have had direct business dealings with more Muslims, than I can count. Every single one of them would tell you, many being repeat customers, that my Wife and I have treated them with respect, friendliness and hospitality and they have treated us the same. But that doesn't change the fact that the Muslim religion is dangerous.

As cab all religions if misused...including Christianity, as history has demonstrated

 

[TCassidy]

 

[TCassidy]

 

[HankD]

Face it Matt, we are a VIOLENT people.

It's a necessary evil because of a few things called "freedom" and "self preservation" to name a couple.

It started in the American colonies when we rebelled against the tyranny of the British Crown.

Fortunately or unfortunately depending on your point of view there is indeed a price to pay when a nation has a Bill of Rights and a free society.

So far we have chosen the Bill of Rights these 240 or so years.

When the Bill of Rights disappears America disappears.

 

[Matt Black]

The police have "Toms, Dicks and Harrys" too.

And in a democracy the police are subject to the government elected by the people are for the people.

And don't view guns as the 'cure all' against a despotic government that has the police and army to back it up: parts of the Polish Home Army and Ukrainian Resistance refused to disarm against the Soviets and fought a guerrilla war against them until the early 1950s. All that happened is that a lot many more people died (mostly the resistance) and their families were deported to the Gulags.

 

[TCassidy]

 

[Matt Black]

Face it Matt, we are a VIOLENT people.

It's a necessary evil because of a few things called "freedom" and "self preservation" to name a couple.

It started in the American colonies when we rebelled against the tyranny of the British Crown.

Fortunately or unfortunately depending on your point of view there is indeed a price to pay when a nation has a Bill of Rights and a free society.

So far we have chosen the Bill of Rights these 240 or so years.

When the Bill of Rights disappears America disappears.

View attachment 1980

So how come we're not prepared to sacrifice our children for the same rights?

I agree that you are a violent people. So are we. So why do you have so much more.of a problem with gun violence that we do here?

 

[carpro]

So how many schoolkids have to die before you change your mind?

[/QUOTE]

How many schoolkids have to become hopeless alcoholics or die under the wheels of a drunk before you change yours?

 

[Matt Black]

Is whataboutism all you have?

 

[Matt Black]

The differnce is that we made a decision through our elected representatives in Parliament some 20 or so years ago that we were no longer prepared to sacrifice our children (and our citizens generally on the altar of the pursuit of some spurious 'human right'; that their right to life trumped any other rights we might think we had.

When are you going to do the same? How many shot dead kids is too many?

 

[TCassidy]

And in a democracy the police are subject to the government elected by the people are for the people.

Exactly. In 1933 Hitler and his Nazis won a landslide election. And the murder of 16 million people soon followed.

In 1931, Weimar authorities authorized the registration of all firearms and their confiscation, if required for “public safety.”

In 1933, the Nazi Party, led by Adolf Hitler, used the records to identify, disarm, and attack political opponents and Jews. Constitutional rights were suspended, and mass searches for and seizures of guns and dissident publications ensued. Police revoked gun licenses of Social Democrats and others who were not “politically reliable.”

In 1938, Hitler signed a new Gun Control Act. Restrictions were removed for Nazi Party members. But Jews were prohibited from working in the firearms industry or owning firearms.

What followed was Kristallnacht, Concentration Camps, and the murder of Jews and other "undesirables."

So much for "democracy" being a protection against tyranny.

 

[HankD]

So how come we're not prepared to sacrifice our children for the same rights?

I agree that you are a violent people. So are we. So why do you have so much more.of a problem with gun violence that we do here?

The Bill of Rights Matt. The Second Amendment in particular.

 

[carpro]

Alcoholism in the United Kingdom - Alcohol Rehab


Alcoholism in the United Kingdom
Alcoholism is a serious problem in the UK. It results in thousands of unnecessary deaths each year and untold misery for alcoholics and their families. On average, it is estimated that the lives of five other people will be harmed when one individual becomes addicted to alcohol. This would indicate that most people living in the UK will be affected in some way by alcohol abuse. People are now consuming more alcohol than they ever did in past. This suggests that alcohol problems will affect even more people in the future.

Alcohol Statistics for the UK
Alcohol abuse is a significant problem in the UK. Around 38 percent of men and 29 percent of women in England regularly drink above the recommended safe limits of consumption. In 2008 alone, there were 6,769 deaths in England as a result of alcohol abuse. The consumption of alcohol in the UK has more than doubled since the 1950s. A higher proportion of people now drink at home than ever before. According to an article in the USA Today, the UK National Health Service (NHS) is currently spending 2.7 billion pounds (US$4.4 billion) on treating alcohol-related problems. This puts a strain on the health service, because it uses up so much of the available resources.


Underage Drinking in the UK
In 2008 the British Medical Association reached the worrying conclusion that not only was the number of underage drinkers increasing, but that they were also drinking more. Part of the blame for this was attributed to the popularity of alcopops, alcoholic beverages that taste more like soft drinks. It is believed that as much as one-third of children aged between 11 and 15 years old regularly consume alcohol. It is obvious that not enough is being done to tackle this problem. It is well known that those who use alcohol at an early age are far more likely to develop alcohol problems in the future.

 

[Rob_BW]

Very rare.

Please define very rare.

Because why should you be able to dismiss home invasion murders in your country as very rare if school shootings in this country are just as rare.

 

[Matt Black]

Alcoholism in the United Kingdom - Alcohol Rehab


Alcoholism in the United Kingdom
Alcoholism is a serious problem in the UK. It results in thousands of unnecessary deaths each year and untold misery for alcoholics and their families. On average, it is estimated that the lives of five other people will be harmed when one individual becomes addicted to alcohol. This would indicate that most people living in the UK will be affected in some way by alcohol abuse. People are now consuming more alcohol than they ever did in past. This suggests that alcohol problems will affect even more people in the future.

Alcohol Statistics for the UK
Alcohol abuse is a significant problem in the UK. Around 38 percent of men and 29 percent of women in England regularly drink above the recommended safe limits of consumption. In 2008 alone, there were 6,769 deaths in England as a result of alcohol abuse. The consumption of alcohol in the UK has more than doubled since the 1950s. A higher proportion of people now drink at home than ever before. According to an article in the USA Today, the UK National Health Service (NHS) is currently spending 2.7 billion pounds (US$4.4 billion) on treating alcohol-related problems. This puts a strain on the health service, because it uses up so much of the available resources.


Underage Drinking in the UK
In 2008 the British Medical Association reached the worrying conclusion that not only was the number of underage drinkers increasing, but that they were also drinking more. Part of the blame for this was attributed to the popularity of alcopops, alcoholic beverages that taste more like soft drinks. It is believed that as much as one-third of children aged between 11 and 15 years old regularly consume alcohol. It is obvious that not enough is being done to tackle this problem. It is well known that those who use alcohol at an early age are far more likely to develop alcohol problems in the future.

Yes we have a problem there. The difference is that we acknowledge this and are making steps to fix it. You don't even acknowledge that the 2nd Amendment has created a problem. Your stance seems to be to hand-wring on the airlines saying "well we can't fix all of the problems so let's not fix any."

 

[carpro]

I don't think citizens of a country with a constitutional right to bear arms needs to be lectured by a citizen of a nation of drunks.


Alcohol-related deaths in the UK - Office for National Statistics


1. Main points
In 2015, there were 8,758 alcohol-related deaths in the UK, an age-standardised rate of 14.2 deaths per 100,000 population.

 

[Matt Black]

Exactly. In 1933 Hitler and his Nazis won a landslide election. And the murder of 16 million people soon followed.

In 1931, Weimar authorities authorized the registration of all firearms and their confiscation, if required for “public safety.”

In 1933, the Nazi Party, led by Adolf Hitler, used the records to identify, disarm, and attack political opponents and Jews. Constitutional rights were suspended, and mass searches for and seizures of guns and dissident publications ensued. Police revoked gun licenses of Social Democrats and others who were not “politically reliable.”

In 1938, Hitler signed a new Gun Control Act. Restrictions were removed for Nazi Party members. But Jews were prohibited from working in the firearms industry or owning firearms.

What followed was Kristallnacht, Concentration Camps, and the murder of Jews and other "undesirables."

So much for "democracy" being a protection against tyranny.

Democracy failed in Weimar Germany the moment it switched to Presidential government in 1930 ie three years before Hitler. Apples and oranges.

[ETA And the example of Eastern Europe post WWII shows it wouldn't have made any difference in the long term: the government tends to win because their guys always have bigger and more guns than you do]

 

[Matt Black]

I don't think citizens of a country with a constitutional right to bear arms needs to be lectured by a citizen of a nation of drunks.


Alcohol-related deaths in the UK - Office for National Statistics


1. Main points
In 2015, there were 8,758 alcohol-related deaths in the UK, an age-standardised rate of 14.2 deaths per 100,000 population.

Largely self inflicted...unlike the 17 who died last week. Fix that and then you ca complain about being lectured...until then the comparison is inaccurate

 

[HankD]

Matt there is a far worst issue of unnecessary death in America (perhaps in GB as well) as opposed to gun deaths yet it has only now surfaced under the guise of "The Opioid Epidemic".

Nightmare stories of nurses giving potent drugs meant for one patient to another and surgeons removing the wrong body parts have dominated recent headlines about medical care. Lest you assume those cases are the exceptions, a new study by patient-safety researchers provides some context.

Their analysis, published in the BMJ on Tuesday, shows that “medical errors” in hospitals and other health-care facilities are incredibly common and may now be the third-leading cause of death in the United States — claiming 251,000 lives every year, more than respiratory disease, accidents, stroke and Alzheimer’s.

One (including one's children) have a FAR greater chance of unnecessary death by walking into a clinic as opposed to a school in America.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...eath-in-united-states/?utm_term=.073791e80d3a

Life is dangerous in MANY ways.

HankD