Why?

[DavidsAngel]

I am so frustrated I've decided to bring this to the debate board.

I would like for someone to tell me where the clause is to forgiveness?

Are we supposed to forgive till it suits us better not to?

Are we supposed to forgive for any length of time ?

What are we supposed to do after we have followed the commands of taking our bro or sister private over the matter?

Ok here is the problem according to me ( I think I have a working knowledge of this but i'm not sure) I would take this matter private but you know I have done that SO here goes

Background

There is a church I WAS a member of. Most of the members i've known for a very long time. I have always thought them all to be Christians right? Ok here we go

A member was convicted of a sexual offense 13 YEARS ago . He paid his debt to society and cleaned up his life. He does everything that is required for him. He's a saved man and REALLY has changed his life. OK , great right ?

The pastor of this church was brought in July 2003. He was told by this person of his history and so on right? Ok, he went ahead and let his kids spend the night with his family , and so on.

Well FAST FOREWARD to this summer,

This summer the pastor decided he wanted to sell some property that the church owned. Ok, according to our bilaws they have to call a meeting, did he ? no he asked every member individually. Ok so no biggie right? Ok the land was sold and the check was being ready to get sent to the church . Alright here it comes. 2 weeks before the check was supposed to appear the members asked for a business meeeting to find out what was going to become of the meeting, to find out why no one had gotten fin statements in 6 months. The members wanted accountablity. No big deal right ? Wrong. Pastor 3 times denied the request for a meeting. So the members of the church called a meeting without the pastor present. They elected a treasure (since the pastor was both the pastor and treasure ). The treasure they eleceted you ask? The same man mentioned above with the past. OK so what happened next you ask? WELL

The church memebers called a meeeting , pastor was informed both by phone and in person of said meeting. every member in good standing via the bi laws was present except the pastor and the pastors wife. Well a vote was taken and the pastor was removed. The following day he was served with the papers as described in the bi laws. The pastor refused to remove himself. And, THEN things got ugly.

Everyone has lawyered up, The pastor .... the PASTOR mind you and his lawyer has thrown this man 's past in the middle of this mess. Has sent a letter last week, Saying he will throw his past in open court. THIS a christian. -sighs-

Alright here we go where I come in to this mess.

The latest letter veaguely suggested that this man had coherced my daughter to put her head in his lap. I wasn't there I was NOT informed by the pastor ( who made this alligation) until 3 WEEKS after this.I talked ot my daughter she said it never happened, and stuck to her story trust me i grilled her and i talked ot him too, he didn't do it. After this letter was recieved, I called the pastor and I asked him WHY he drug my family in this. He said he wouldn't speak to me that I should talk to the Other side of this mess. A pastor. I resigned from this church weeks ago because i knew this kind of mudslinging was coming. I was so upset about this letter , I called the lawyer. A Christian lawyer, do you know what he told me?

he told me he never mentioned names, he told me that if i allowed my daughter to be around this "pervert" <- HIS WORDS, that showed what kind of mother I am. this a SAVED man! What's worse, he is didn't understand why i was upset, he said I threw myself in this mess that he didn't do it at all. I asked him if we are suppsoed to forgive, he said no , I askedh im to give me chapter and verse that the letter he sent was Biblical. He refused. The only thing i got out of him before i hung up on him was...... If thier are snakes in the temple it is up to the church leaders to remove them.

I tell you i'm in tears. No one understands why I am upset. This might not make sense to you but, if it does please tell me

ARE there limits on forgiveness?

Seems people bend the Bible to suit thier needs at the time dosen't ANYONE EVER LIVE IT?

Exhasperated and in tears ,

Wendy

 

[Johnv]

As soon as I got to the part where the pastor allowed children to spend the night in the proximity of a convicted sex offender, I could have guessed that the pastor is not fit to be pastor.

I don't think there are limits on forgiveness, but I don't think that an offender should expect to be forgiven by another just because scripture calls for forgiveness.
My advice is to sever yourself completely from the church, in every aspect, Once that's done and you've moved on completely, feel free to forgive those involved.

 

[DavidsAngel]

Johnv I did exactly that. I left quietly, I found another church. And, as SOON as I found out about this man I STOPPED letting my kids over there. Thank heavens nothing happened. But, they have been friends of my families for years and I've seen this man change his life. I STILL do not let my kids over there UNLESS I AM with them . They know that and understand. I just don't understand why they said nothing till it suited them it's so agrivating.

 

[Lori]

I feel so bad for you that you got dragged into that mess. I think the pastor may have been up to no good financially and decided to ruffle peoples feathers up about this sex offender in order to gain favor among the congregation. I hope that you have found yourself a much better church, and I will pray that God will give you strength and peace. I will also pray for the offender that got his past dragged back out and used as a weapon. That was unfair to him also.

much love from your sister in Christ,
azwyld
<*}}}><

 

[Johnv]

DA, it sounds like you've banalced his changes in his life with protection of your children just fine.

The reason they said nothing until it suited them is because of sinful pride and selfishness. You have described the pastor as one who would compromise the church in favor of his own interests and ahead of the congregation's.

 

[DavidsAngel]

Exactly, It just bothers me what it looks like to others when they witness this mess. I mean, it's no wonder we are protrayed as badly as we are at times, with situations like this. -shakes head- It would rattle anyone's faith. I know that it has made mine for one stronger, but still i've gotten reactions like "see this is why i don't go to church, this is always what happens" it really kills ALL of our testimony. -sighs-

Thank you for your kind words Lori

I appriciate them

 

[Plain ol' Ralph]

We are to forgive as the Lord has forgiven, failure to do so invites the wrath of God.

What "limit" is there to, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do?"

There is none.

 

[HankD]

We are to forgive as the Lord has forgiven, failure to do so invites the wrath of God.

What "limit" is there to, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do?"

There is none

Sure there is Ralph. Those who do know what they are doing.

Matthew 7:15
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

HankD

 

[Bible Student]

DA, I am praying for the church and all things concerned. I want to let the others on this BB know that the members of the church have done everything by the Bible and Church Constitution and by-laws. But this man is not willing to do the right thing and refuses to believe he is in the wrong.

This whole thing breaks my heart as eight years ago I started this church. I feel like a parent watching their child do things that can hurt them and unable to help!

All, I can do is ask all of you to pray for the Families who are trying to do the right thing and follow their Lord and Savior. I am afraid that the church will have to close as it has become the talk of the town..

Richard

 

[DavidsAngel]

Things that were started here will never be put under. There was one time when this church was the best church in the whole world in my opinion. I felt great peace and wonderful feelings there. I will never forget that. EVER. I was very lucky to have been saved by Jesus. I was even luckier to have a pastor and his wife love me as thier own. It gives me the strength to endure what is going on now. Because of them, my faith will bring me though.

 

[preachinjesus]

Have the finances of the church been audited lately? Not to be too personal (actually you don't have to answer to us, just a good question to ask)

I never trust a pastor who elects himself treasurer and chief of finance of any church.

 

[DavidsAngel]

No they have not. He won't allow anone to see minutes nor the book keeping records of the church. The only thing he "said" he would allow would be a church member to see his own givings but that was IT.

 

[blackbird]

DA----how come people KEEP going to this church with this pastor in charge????

Blackbird

 

[DavidsAngel]

That is one thing. He has refused admittance to the members in question. AS far as the members in question are concerned he is no longer pastor. But, that is thier church. Some of them have been there since the beginning. They don't want to give up. They are fighting for thier church. The pastor ceased being in charge when 9 members voted him out. There were 11 total (including the pastor and his wife, and those two also did not make it to the meeting where the pastor was relieved of duty.)