Wikileaks may have the blood of our soldiers on their hands

[windcatcher]

......
But, he is a Libertarian. The problem I have with libertarian is from my study and 10 years of study and going to their meetings, off and on, is if it don't effect my family in my house it is ok, even if I disagree with it. I've listen when they had Larry King (who is about as liberal as you can get), Ron Paul (many times) Neal Bortzs (who I still recall as the most liberal talk show host in Atlanta) and many others. The one thing I got out of all that time, if I would put away my Christian world view and replace it with self, I could be a libertarian.

Down here I know about 35 libertarian who are big Ron Paul backers, I believe about 30 of them voted for BHO, as did our friend Ken. That is one of the many reasons I couldn't vote for Ron Paul.

From what I've seen of libertarians.... those who are strictly so.... if you ask them the question "Do you agree or disagree that government can legislate morality?" Their answer would be 'no'. And if you disagree.... their response at first is inticing.... they'll ask questions like "so you think its alright for government to dictate what is acceptible or not in bedroom behavior between you and your spouse?,' 'so you think its alright for the government to have a say as to what you can say and the words you can use in the privacy of your home?..... the discipline and teachings of your children?"

What is not recognized..... any law which is good law and serves a worthy purpose has morality at its heart. Morality serves the interest of all people and the peace of all communities and nations. Law which is not based in morality is mere regulation..... and serves little more than control. Laws can be mixed with both a moral interest and a control interest at its heart. ......But, when it comes to legislating morality.... it seems the politically correct only legislate that which is the broadest acceptance of what society is willing to tolerate... instead of the most noble and highest of standards. While our constitution permits such interpretation....... its security of continuance is based upon a tightly knit people, agreed in high moral standards.... not reduced to the least that they themselves might practice or allow in others.
----------------


Who is controlling us? Is it fear? Is it news which is a partial feed? Are we being told 'the truth' or is it that the truth is being manipulated by the facts they choose to leave out? What happened to our ability to think critically? Did we ever have this ability? or is it something learned? or is it something that comes at the risks of being 'diagnosed by others' as paranoid?

What does the majority of Americans want? I'll tell you. The silent majority.... and I count my self as one...... want to be left alone and at peace without government interference ..... in the sanctuary of our homes. We don't want unjust wars, runaway debt... inflation...deflation...., most of us don't even want politics.... we have a suspicion elections are rigged and candidates are groomed to run and win and both parties are leading us in the same direction.... the Repub.. get by the conservative vote those laws and obligations which set up the programs for the Dem. The Dem. then use their 'progressive' (which is not progress at all) position to carry us deeper into economic destruction and enslavement and socialism. Each blames the other.... and yet both sides keep their loyalist.... few people are free thinking enough to call their own accountable for their actions.... or to consider how the two parties play together like a well tuned violin..... maybe not at the grass roots.... though that is already well underway.... you'll know it when the UN controls your property and restrains your religious rights and free speech. The UN? Yes.... but from here to there is too long to explain... so I'll leave it as a construct for readers to keep in mind.... if they're not aware or interested in ferreting it out for themselves. A nobody like me wont convince anyone..... its a waste of my time. A person will not be convinced unless he studies it out for himself.... and if its not important to do so now..... it may be as proper that when its too late.... it'll be too late to know how they let it happen and too late to change it back.

Our economy is in shambles and we have participated in its becoming so.
The curent generation has two viable (which is questionable) avenues for employment today: If they know the right people and have the right politics.... they might be able to land a government job (most likely one in an agency which is established by law and funded by Congress... but has little or no constitutional basis).... which offers some security and benefits....... or they can join the armed services, become subject to the wars, whims and will of the CIC, and, hopefully servive their servitude and profit from their experience..... and get the benefits which were promised as inducements: Otherwise, they can get minimum wage jobs which pay little more than for living... and with scholarships/grants and loans go to school hoping a job will be available when they're graduated to use their skills and knowledge.... and tied to debts they don't know if they'll be able to pay off. We have grandparents who complain if they don't get their ss colas.... with stickers on their cars 'spending our grandchildren's inheritance'. (Sadly how true!)

We bought into Wall Street.... and the capital invested in companies and industry which was supposed to anchor our economy has gone overseas. Following after the behavior of the rich.... we hoped to sit in our arm chairs, in quiet and peace, sustained by the wealth of our armchair labors working for us, while we labored not....... Investing in companies which were against our interest.... many which lobbied for regulations they manuvered to swallow up their competition.... and then moved their industry overseas... some supporting 'alternative lifestyle'. We visit the discount stores.... you know the ones who used to say 'buy American' while discounting smalll mom and pop operations out of the competition.... and now sale goods of questionable quality and safety and purity 'made in China'. We cannot afford otherwise...yet, because we either can't or wont...we tighten the noose on our own necks. And who is government bailing out.... not us, not our economy..... they are bailing out the very thieves who stole our economy and shipped it to China or elsewhere.....the very ones who manipulated the stock market that we invested in.... for their progfits on the rise... and our lossess on the falls.... and allowed banks etc. to invest in 'derivatives' which was a crap shoot..... and nothing more. The DOD looses money.... oh, just a few billions; What happens if an IRS audit.... you can't find certain receipts? You get nailed. What about these accountants? Why do they escape with a smug excuse? 6600 soldiers buried in Arlington Cementary with graves unknown?

Returning to the morality issue...... all of these developments have to do with morality.

....

After 30 years personal experience I have concluded that paid police informants and under cover police work generates much more evil than it eliminates. "We have met the enemy and they are us," Pogo.

While it may seem to be "a necessary evil"...... it is time we start to realize that those things which aren't done "in the light" escape accountability and lend themselves to become "instruments of darkness". The Christian pov is that human nature being what it is ..... ungodly and unpredictable.... unless God fills the void and a person is guided by him..... a person is at the 'mercy' of their own conscience and the pressures which favor him.

 

[poncho]

No, I want to see American armed forces personnel saved by abandoning President Bush's warmongering that President Obama has continued and has ramped up in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

The warmongering of these two presidents has cost lots of American lives and the lives of innocent civilians in these countries and in Iraq.

I think what the good Rev is upset about Ken, is that these "leaked" (?) documents tend to back up what we've been saying for a long time now.

These "wars" were not necessary from the begining and that prolonging them now doesn't make us safer, but instead just the opposite. We fund our own enemies by giving them contracts not to attack the corporito's convoys.

We protect their poppy fields so they can profit from the misery heroin causes our own people.

Continuing these "wars" does not benefit the American people but rather the international community that is made up of international bankers and corporations and the "government contractors" who service them.

The good Rev does not want the truth to be known because if it were he and those who support these un necessary overseas interventions would end up with egg on their face. :smilewinkgrin:

Recently the Washington Post ran an extensive report by Dana Priest and William M. Arkin on the bloated intelligence community. They found that an estimated 854,000 people hold top-secret security clearances. Just what are all these people up to? By my calculation this is about 11,000 intelligence workers per al Qaeda member in Afghanistan. This also begs the question – if close to 1 million people are authorized to know top secrets, how closely guarded are these secrets?

<snip>

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]The problem with our intelligence community before 9/11 was not an inability to collect information. Therefore, the post-September 11 build-up of the surveillance state does nothing to enhance safety. Instead what Americans have gotten in return for the billions of tax dollars spent on security is a surveillance state that reads our e-mails, wiretaps us without warrants, and strip searches grandmothers at airports. This is yet another instance in which Americans would be safer, richer and freer if our government would simply look to the Constitution and respect the boundaries it has set.[/FONT]

SOURCE

 

[billwald]

>From what I've seen of libertarians.... those who are strictly so.... if you ask them the question "Do you agree or disagree that government can legislate morality?" Their answer would be 'no'.

Agree with you that every law is an attempt to legislate morality. The Greeks knew that 4000 years ago. I'm a "social contract theory" person.

 

[windcatcher]

Upon whose hands does our soldiers' blood stain?

If they were sent to war.... and in the righteous judgement of God.. it wasn't for a just cause..... it rest upon our leaders: If, in the righteous judgement of God, the war is just, then, not only are they free of bloodshed... but God will be glorified in its outcome. ..... or this is imo.

Everything else which follows is first hinged upon this one responsibility.

War is a Racket: Major General Smedley Butler

A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small "inside" group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes.

In the World War a mere handful garnered the profits of the conflict. At least 21,000 new millionaires and billionaires were made in the United States during the World War. That many admitted their huge blood gains in their income tax returns. How many other war millionaires falsified their tax returns no one knows. ........

Out of war nations acquire additional territory, if they are victorious. They just take it. This newly acquired territory promptly is exploited by the few -- the selfsame few who wrung dollars out of blood in the war. The general public shoulders the bill.

And what is this bill?

This bill renders a horrible accounting. Newly placed gravestones. Mangled bodies. Shattered minds. Broken hearts and homes. Economic instability. Depression and all its attendant miseries. Back-breaking taxation for generations and generations. .....

Again they are choosing sides. France and Russia met and agreed to stand side by side. Italy and Austria hurried to make a similar agreement. Poland and Germany cast sheep's eyes at each other, forgetting for the nonce [one unique occasion], their dispute over the Polish Corridor.

The assassination of King Alexander of Jugoslavia [Yugoslavia] complicated matters. Jugoslavia and Hungary, long bitter enemies, were almost at each other's throats. Italy was ready to jump in. But France was waiting. So was Czechoslovakia. All of them are looking ahead to war. Not the people -- not those who fight and pay and die -- only those who foment wars and remain safely at home to profit.

There are 40,000,000 men under arms in the world today, and our statesmen and diplomats have the temerity to say that war is not in the making.

Hell's bells! Are these 40,000,000 men being trained to be dancers? .......

Yes, all over, nations are camping in their arms. The mad dogs of Europe are on the loose. In the Orient the maneuvering is more adroit. Back in 1904, when Russia and Japan fought, we kicked out our old friends the Russians and backed Japan. Then our very generous international bankers were financing Japan. Now the trend is to poison us against the Japanese. What does the "open door" policy to China mean to us? Our trade with China is about $90,000,000 a year. Or the Philippine Islands? We have spent about $600,000,000 in the Philippines in thirty-five years and we (our bankers and industrialists and speculators) have private investments there of less than $200,000,000.

Then, to save that China trade of about $90,000,000, or to protect these private investments of less than $200,000,000 in the Philippines, we would be all stirred up to hate Japan and go to war -- a war that might well cost us tens of billions of dollars, hundreds of thousands of lives of Americans, and many more hundreds of thousands of physically maimed and mentally unbalanced men.

Of course, for this loss, there would be a compensating profit -- fortunes would be made. Millions and billions of dollars would be piled up. By a few. Munitions makers. Bankers. Ship builders. Manufacturers. Meat packers. Speculators. They would fare well.

Yes, they are getting ready for another war. Why shouldn't they? It pays high dividends.

But what does it profit the men who are killed? What does it profit their mothers and sisters, their wives and their sweethearts? What does it profit their children?

What does it profit anyone except the very few to whom war means huge profits?

Yes, and what does it profit the nation?

Take our own case. Until 1898 we didn't own a bit of territory outside the mainland of North America. At that time our national debt was a little more than $1,000,000,000. Then we became "internationally minded." We forgot, or shunted aside, the advice of the Father of our country. We forgot George Washington's warning about "entangling alliances." We went to war. We acquired outside territory. At the end of the World War period, as a direct result of our fiddling in international affairs, our national debt had jumped to over $25,000,000,000. Our total favorable trade balance during the twenty-five-year period was about $24,000,000,000. Therefore, on a purely bookkeeping basis, we ran a little behind year for year, and that foreign trade might well have been ours without the wars.

It would have been far cheaper (not to say safer) for the average American who pays the bills to stay out of foreign entanglements. For a very few this racket, like bootlegging and other underworld rackets, brings fancy profits, but the cost of operations is always transferred to the people -- who do not profit.

Sound familiar? Ever wonder about this?
What did we gain from WW I? Debts and economic depression followed... and an attempt to form the League of Nations.

WW II? Realignment of friends and foes. Depression still continuing: Immediate 'work' for men of soldiering age and condition...... women went to work at jobs normally done by men.... and suddenly had to cope with single parenting and head of household decisions: Bankers and corporate interests gained profits marketing with foe and friend alike for profits.... while the rest of the people were still processing through distractions of war and grief and anxieties and coping: The United Nations was formed. Socialism and Communism had risen.... socialism became acceptible as security in the USA.

Korea? The Council on Foreign Relations was begun: It unified international representatives around globalist causes.. a peculiar group of intellectuals, clever business, financial, governmental, and industrialists..... few, if any, with any grounding in the God of the Bible... most were ambitious internationalists..... common goal..... wealth and power.

Viet Nam....... distracted people from the DOD 'scientific investigations' into mind control, drugs, paranormal studies, and 'magic' or occult powers; biological, chemical, radiological, behavioral, and weather control.... stimulated by the scientists and documents retained by DOD through such projects as Operation Paperclip. US secretly continued human experiementation w/o ethics and notification... Tuskeegee Syphyllus Study on Black Men... Racial and war protest increased; Courts said no Bible no prayer in School. Women revolted forming NOW and motherhood ridiculed: Trilateral Commission formed by the same folks.... Rockefellar's that help start the CFR.... TLC a tighter, smaller group.... most already are or will become leaders in high office..... UN gains more support and programs developed are increasingly more comprehensive of all areas of government necessary for world control. Trade opens with China. Industry flows out of country along with investment dollars. Courts open abortion to all seeking: Birth control in a pill. HIV enters the population... as AIDs is feared.... former CDC controls to diagnose STDs and reports to partners is stifled: Flu scares intensified and promotion of annual vacines: Language and behavior test limits of public in entertainment, Hollywood, etc.. Schools less discipline... students medicated.... evolution and humanism throughly fill text books and public education ......which includes how teachers are taught: Entitlement programs started in the 60's increase and people encouraged to qualify and participate, 'its your money'.

Gulf War? Bush I said "NWO" on 9, 11, 1991. NYC, WTC towers fell 9, 11, 2001. War in middle East: FDC cracks down on domestic farms, raw milk, herbalist, but can't stop drugs from being marketed by drug companies with risks greater than benefit or adulterated drugs/food/ products from China etc from entering country: The "God" players succeed in remaking the genetics of major food crops, patented seeds insure controls and profits... safety isn't known or studied: War on Cancer, Drugs, etc...... like Nam..... still loosing! Debts increase with war... housing bubble.... which encouraged mortgage brokers/bankers to participate in fraud....bursts.... and the bankers get bailed out and Wall Street's pet industries get socialized help.... average tax payer... rich and poor alike left holding the debt while those responsible for manipulating are neither investigated nor punished.... except the renegades like Maddof... or companies like Enron.... which lead the way and got caught too early. Currently happening right now.... legislation already written and designed to increase control or conform to UN or international law.... already in the channels waiting for the proper time for the right crisis to introduce and push through as panic legislation... those who know will promote.... and those who resist rubberstamping on the faith of others in Congress will be ridiculed or turned out.... none or few will have chance to read.. and we can only suspect the content and motive... title often hides the real intent.



Read it here: http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/warisaracket.html#c3

 

[Matt Black]

Neither side comes out of this with much credit. The *cough* 'questionable' practices of some NATO forces have been exposed, but they were largely already known about or suspected. Assange, meanwhile, has endangered NATO and Afghan lives by publishing sufficient data to enable individuals to be identified.

 

[NiteShift]

Assange has again turned the tables. He is asking the Pentagon to review the next batch of classified material before he publishes it. In this way when Afghans are killed for having cooperated with NATO he can say the blood is on the US's hands, not his. His weasel ways seem to have no limits.