Will a Christian commit certain sins? PART TWO

Bob...look at the list I've put together...gleaned from the Scriptures you quote. Yes, there are some sins on there that would get pastors fired...and rightfully so. But on that same list, contained in that very passage, are sins that many of us Christians commit more than we'd like.

You use the molest/kill children and adultery example because it makes your point on an emotional level. And yes, those are terrible sins with horrible consequences. But be intellectually consistent: what if a pastor got up in the pulpit and said, "Folks, I must confess...this week I was envious of another pastor's ministry." By your logic, that pastor could not have been a Christian.

Let's be consistent here. Envy is on the list...just like fornication.

 

And I'm making a request of everyone: Let's all be careful. If I found out a person was molesting their kid, I'd turn them in in a New York minute (and HAVE done so).

Nobody worth a hoot would downplay such a heinous act.

I just want to make sure there's no equivocation here...there is no one advocating child molestation.

 

I really think rbell that its in your definition of "envious". To think is not"envious" and the telling of a lie must have the "intent to decieve". You know when you have really wronged someone or God. I know you do. I think plenty others have better gifts than I do, but does that make me envious, I don't think so. Envious must come from "covet". Now to covet a gift or someone's wife a person would have to make some effort to have it or destroy his, seems to me.

 

I believe that and also I believe that you won't do any of the other ones either with the intent. You seem to be "real" to me.

 

I don't think anyone here is advocating that either. I am not accusing anyone of that. The point is, that when we say we are just as capable of molestation now that we are Christians as we were before salvation, we'd better make sure that we are never in a position to do that. You can't have it both ways. Either you're capable or not.

 

I'm not trying to get smart with you, Brother Bob, but if Christians cannot sin (really badly), then why in the world would a Baptist preacher (Whose salvation should have been confirmed with his other qualifications before he was chosen to pastor.) ever need any of this sort of accountability.

You said you are able to trust any "real" Christian with your kids or wife.

So when a believer has trouble with temptation (with a sin on your "unto death" list) , the only counsel you can offer is for him to make sure he is "really saved". That causes everyone to try to confirm his/her salvation with his/her good works.

The trouble is, some fruit can look pretty good to the immature. We tend to under-emphasize the severity of sin in our own heart and over-emphasize sin in another mans.

The only person "sure" of his "salvation" in your system is the person who examines his own fruit and declares himself OK. The "little things" don't bother him so much. As long as he doesn't kill someone, fornicate, or molest children, growing in holiness
is pretty much a foregone conclusion.


The poor humble, contrite person (who looks inward and sees vile corruption more and more as he comes to understand just how Holy God is) will never be "sure" because he knows there are still evil things in his heart.

No. My trust is in Christ alone. His finished work is the only work I can stand on. If I need evidence of my salvation, it is the evidence of the empty tomb. If I need absolute assurance, then I rest upon his absolutely good work on the cross.

I need no other argument.
I need no other plea.
It is enough that Jesus died.
And that he died for me.

Lacy

 

Where is your Salvation, inwardly or outwardly?

 

Explain what you mean.

 

Ungodliness ecompasses ALL sin, not some sin. We are commanded by God as Christians to deny ALL sin. Yet the reality is while we are in these bodies of flesh we will still sometimes fail.

Much of this talk is a complete and utter failer to recognize the Biblical teaching of imputed righteousness.

If our faith is credited to us as righteousness, and specifically when we trust in Christ, he becomes our righteousness and holiness before God at what point does God remove this righteous standing from us once it is imputed to us? What sin will God count against me as a Christian? The answer from passages like Romans 4:8 is none!

I have read the many threads on this subject and see these passages often quoted in trying to argue that a Christian will not commit certain sins:

If we were to take this passage alone without looking at the rest of the scriptures(let alone the begining of I John) we may have the impression that Christians don't sin anymore. Therefore, if each of us searched our heart we would believe we were not saved because we all sin everyday, whether it is in thought or in deed.

But if we understand the context of I John, and who is was writing to, and what he said in the begining of his epistle things begin to make more sense:

John was writing to combat Gnostism whose teachers denied the incarnation of Christ, and the fact of the sinful nature of man. There were many forms of Gnostism, some more aestic, others just the opposite. John was writing here concerning the latter.

Both John's gospel and his epistles are at the forefront of attacking Gnostics and there wrong view of Christ and the nature of sin.

He tells us that Christ purifies us from all our sin, then tells us if we claim we are without sin, we make God a liar. He tell us not to sin, but if we do sin we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ. So he is now acknowleding the reality of sin in the life a believer.

When he writes that a whoever is born of God does not sin, he cannot mean that we do not commit any sin, else he would be contradicting himself, and the Word of God never contradicts itself. So he must mean something else by these statements.

I believe these statements are written toward false Gnostic teachers who would allow people to sin with impunity. Sin did not matter, because all matter was evil anyway.

So the message of I John is simply this, to deny the reality of sinful nature of man is wrong. If we as Christians do sin however, we have an advocate with the father in the person of Jesus Christ. Anyone who teaches that Jesus Christ was not God in the flesh, or that we can sin with impunity because it really isn't sin is a false teacher. These are the ones who walked in darkness that John spoke of.

When John speaks of sin that leads to death, we are not given the details of what this means and I think reading a list of sins into this as some have done here is quite the stretch.

IFBReformer

 

When you testify "you know you are saved", is it the inward that has the knowledge or the flesh?

 

IfbReformer, I believe you are exactly right.
I also have been reading silently, and you wrote what I was thinking.

It is plain arrogance to believe that Christians do not sin.
We sin... or why else would God punish us?

After reading these threads on the perfectness of Christians I am reminded of a saying I used to hear:

When a girl was told she was conceited, she simply said..."I cannot be conceited, for conceitedness is a fault, and I have no faults"

It is like some are saying here, I cannot be proud, because being proud is a sin, and as a Christian, I cannot sin.

Hogwash!
To say you don't sin makes you a liar. Which of course is a sin.

Mark Hall of Casting Crowns said in a concert, "It doesn't bother the world that Christians sin, it bothers them that we act like we don't"

I'll go back to reading silently now.

 

He does mean that which is "born of God" doth not sin, which is the inward part and not the flesh. Also, he that saith he hath no sin is a liar is to the flesh. I have already written to great length so there is no need to cover it again but every scripture you quote has already been gone over.

Would you dare say it is plain ignorance to say that which is born of God doth not sin, when that is what the scriptures say?

So, this part is ok and you accept it but:

Whosoever is born of God doth not sin, you cannot accept?

Instead of trying to understand what the scripture is talking about you have denied this part.

1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

and this:

1Jo 5:18¶We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

 

When I testify, it is with my mouth and hopefully (as I grow in grace and yield to the Holy Ghost) in my actions.

I still don't get what you mean. Do I testify with my inward part or my flesh? Do I have assurance in my inward part or in my flesh?


I know I am saved because the Bible says if I put my trust in Christ's finished work on Calvary, He will save me and give me a reborn heart. I didn't have to feel anything or see anything. I trust that his blood is sufficient.

Even after salvation my works are filthy rags dripping with pride and the flesh. I thank God for my High Priest who sanctifies my works by his own blood and declares them a sweet smelling savor to the Father.

Lacy

 

Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

1Jo 5:6 ¶ This is he that came by water and blood, [even] Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

Rom 8:23 And not only [they], but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body.

To testify you have something then you must have it and the flesh is waiting on its change. So, what knowledge we have is to the part that has received it.

The carnal mind is sin to God.

 

I guess 'some' members on this board dont need a savior because they are going to heaven based on their righetouness. Clearly the bible teaches us that when we are saved we recieve the righetousness of christ and God doesnt look at us based on our sins but through CHRIST's PERFECTION of the LAW! Next the list of 'uncommitable' sins are actually to tell people those that do those sins will go to hell unless they have a savior. It is also used to point out that we as humans are imperfect and need God in our lives to overcome sin; if God is a God who turns his back on his children when they mess up IAM SORRY TO SAY HE's not a good father neither is he fit to be a heavely father who is based on love. However this is not the case. Jesus died for us while we were sinners, now why didnt he just wait till we repented of our sins and not commit certain sins before he died for us. Just because certain sins are not weakness for you doesnt make it the case for all of God's children. I know once your saved, you recieve the holy ghost and are sealed in the lord. I know I mess up and probably will continue to miss the mark. BUT GOD is right there to pick me up. This doesnt give me a licence to sin, I should try my best and trust God to save me.

Please Brothers and Sisters dont disguist me with the though of some of you being unable to commit certain sins, the truth is you just refrain from doing it not that you cant; unless you have no sin. Remember Lucifer who had no sin and couldnt possibly sin commited the worst of sins, so lets not say that we cant fall to sin when we clearly can!

 

I can't and don't try to speak for any others, but when I "testify" that I am saved, I base it on the testimony of Scripture. I may not "feel" as "close to God" (whatever that means) some times as others, and in fact, in my Christian walk, may not be as close to God, as at other times, but like the old farmer who was riding along the road with his wife, when she said something about they did not sit as close together as they did when they were dating and as a newly married couple. The old farmer replied, "I ain't moved!"
If one does not "feel" as close to God at some times, as opposed to other times, guess who moved! It ain't God!

Ed

 

I hate to interupt this bash fest, but I want to interject a compliment here....

Brother Bob, You have a good singing voice. I followed the links on your website, and was impressed....

Now just don't get a big head lol.

OK, back to our regular scheduled bashfest.....
BTW, the two verses you quoted above I interpret them to mean habitual sinners that feel no convicting of the Holy Spirit when they sin.

What is the difference between the word "sinneth" and "sin"?

 

I don't know what this means Ed.
Let me put it a different way, does your flesh have eternal life now? The part that is "saved" does have eternal life right now.