Will a Christian commit certain sins? PART TWO

God can do all that but His Grace can't keep you, just "hides it". amazing!

 

This verse needs to be taken in context. The context clearly shows the audience to be already saved and therefor it is referring to sanctification (Our walk) not salvation (Our position)

Audience established. Christians are being addressed. Salvation is a given (Unless you believe salvation can be lost)

Now we see the two aspects of purification. One is done. (Positional salvation - he is pure) The other is practical and ongoing let him purify himelf. This is the key to understanding the whole passage.

OK. Christian if you sin (as opposed to purifying yourself) you break the law.

Not sinning=abiding in him. "See" and "Know" = relationship. It cannot be "know" or "see' in an absolute sense because sanctification is the focus, not salvation and not assurance.

Again it is very simple, Little children (Saved!) don't think you are righteous outwardly iin your sin just because you are righteous positionally. To be righteous (practically) you must DO righteousnss. If you sin, you are acting like the Devil.

This is how you judge your own holiness. his is how you know you are pleaseing your heavenly Father. This is how you know whether you are in danger of chastening. Are you being "born of God" or are you acting like a child of the devil? Christian, if you are not loving your brother you are not behaving like a child of God.

Matt 5 says the same thing.

This is not a test to see if you are "pure" in a positional sense. (That is understood if you are saved)

It is rather a test to see if I am purifying myself even as I am pure so I can be child of my Father.

lacy

 

Agreed! but at the same time, did not Paul describe the Corinthian believers as "carnal"? No, the new nature does not, and cannot sin. However, the believer still has two natures, that new nature that cannot sin, and the "old sin nature: that is usually "all 'growed' up", and knows little else but to sin.

In fact, since the definition of the word sin "'amartanO", transliterated as 'hamartano' means "I miss the mark", meaning the mark of God's perfection, or "the glory of God", all have sinned.

Jesus paid entirely at Mt. Moriah, the penalty of sin, (and the LORD had 'covered it up to that time "with the blood of bulls and goats") but 'eradicate the old sin nature' did not happen either before or after the cross, even when God said he would 'give a new heart within man', which he does and did. Neither did He remove us from "the presence of sin", nor make it impossible for one to sin. That will happen at the "glorification" of our bodies, not before.

The Holy Spirit will lead us, guide us, strenghten us, and so forth in our daily walk, and GOd will provide a way of escape, but Scripture never says He will force us to "Do right!"

But just as the father said to his rebellious young son, "I brought you into this world and I can take you out!", God can and sometimes does take his own children out of this world. These verses have been posted many times. But what verses are not posted nor have been, nor will be, are verses that "prove" God automatically "prevents" a Christian from doing certain 'henious" sins.

But, again, sometimes "He takes us out!" And I am not in any way suggesting that those who 'die at a young age', like someone who is a Christian and is killed in an automobile accident, for example, are necessarily in this category.

Ed

 

Lacy; why do you change what the scripture says and put your own meaning to it. I don't understand.

for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God

Why not accept it for what it is? The inward part cannot sin, period.

If everyone is so truthful and say "sure they are capable of any sin". How about you standing up in front of your congregations and telling them that you are capable of "hitting" on their wives so keep the close to you. Tell them you don't think you will, but you are capable, so don't take any chances

Then we see how long your remain a pastor, or praise someone else who says he is capable of "hitting on their wives".

Live what you preach on here.

 

Man, I didn't feel like it was a bash-fest at all. I have the utmost respect and love for Brother Bob, HBSMN, and the others. This has been very good debate. No name-calling, no subjective bombs.

The problem with that interpretation IMHO, is that it emasculates the verse. No one is afraid of that. As long as I dont sin really bad for a really long time, I'm cool. As long as I feel a tiny prick of conviction, I've no worries.

Be not decieved. God is not mocked! A man will reap what he sows.

Lacy

 

5 And to the one who does not work but believes in [1] him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness ROMANS 4:5

Since Bob keeps bringing up the same verses I thought Id do the same thing...
Even if we dont obey or work we get salvation as a gift if we believe in Jesus; that he died for our sins and rose again From the grave.
Can I get an Amen...

 

What did you just do here? You "changed" what the scripture says and put your own meaning to it. John says "he cannot sin" and you say "the inward part cannot sin".

 

This is your own private, context-be-danged, interpretation of what the phrase "born of God" means. What does it mean for a Christian to purify himself?

And why would John, right in the middle of a talk addressed to believers about sanctification, without warning or indication, switch to telling us how we act if we are "really" saved? (Or better yet, switch without warning or indication, to addressing unvbelievers how to get "really" saved.)

OK this is starting to get annoying. When your argument gets thin, you resort to this extreme example and insinuate that if I don't believe like you, that I am an adulterer or a child molester. I mean you no disrespect, for you are my elder, but that mess needs to stop.

I will take that counsel from you my dear elder brother, but you get to know me better before you pretend to know how I live.

Lacy

 

So the inward man cannot sin, but the fleshly man can if you are saying it in the sense that the Apostle Paul speaks it in Romans 7 then I agree:

If you mean the sin we do produced by our fleshly corrupt nature which will not be gone till we get our glorified bodies, then I agree with you.

Yet John says writes to us not to sin, but if we sin we have an advocate. So what he really meant was, if our flesh sins, we have an advocate.

But this still does not address how you read so much into a sin that leads to death that the scripture does not - this list of sins that a Christian could never do.

I have read all your posts over a few different threads, and it seems you are just saying God puts it in us to know these special sins we could never do. However this is not supported by the Scriptures.

The scriptures do teach as you have pointed out, that the Spirit teaches us what is ungodliness - we agree here. But they never tell us that the Spirit teaches us about a special list of especially ungodly acts that we could never do.

All sin is sin in God's sight - all Sin is covered by the blood, both before salvation and after.

I have witnessed to people as I am sure you have Brother Bob and I have had similar experiances. They will say - "So God will forgive you if trust in Christ and if you murder someone or commit adultery?" Unsaved people always want to test the forgiveness of God, because it is completely foriegn to them.

You take the easy way out and tell them that a Christian could never do these things so there is no issue of forgiveness. I believe that God forgives ALL sin, both before salvation and AFTER salvation.

It does not mean we should condone sin, or comfort people in their sin. What is means is that God will always forgive, their is no special list of sins that causes someone to forfeit their salvation or proves they will never save.

What proves they are saved is that they have trusted on Christ as their Lord Savior - an evidence of this is the desire to please God, and sadness over one's sin, not that a Christian does not sin, or can't do certain sins.

IFBReformer

 

If you Love me, you will keep my commandments.

 

They are capable. A Christian is capable of any sin, just as David proved that they are. So did Ananias and Sapphira. But you reject these testimonies.

You do what the Mormons do. You take the Scriptures you want to prove out of their context and build a false doctrine around them. The Bible does teach that Christians sin, and make provision for that sin. It does not teach that Christians cannot sin. If one holds to that doctrine the Bible teaches that the same person calls Jesus Christ a liar and the truth is not him.

Here is an example of the way that you are treating Scripture.

The Bible says in the Book of Proverbs:
He that findeth a wife findeth a good thing.

And in Mat.6:33:
Seek ye first the kingdom of God and his righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you.

You see Bob, there is proof positive that the Bible teaches polygamy.
You do the same thing to teach the doctrine of entire sanctification.

 

Not accusing you just using your words where you said a christian was capable of doing such. Forgive me if it sounded too personal. I just pointing out that it seems if someone advocates you can commit such sins, they should have no problem telling their congregation. I admit I go all the way to the end of the scale to get my point across and maybe I shouldn't.

 

You have a good post but I don''t agree with it all.

You will know a tree by the fruit it bears. Do we know the fruit whether its good or bad?

 

I'll give an "Amen!" to this post. :thumbsup: raying: Since I'm now a :saint: !

Ed

 

Yes! If you want to actively love God, show it by keeping his commandments. This is how to "love" God. It is not automatic. The next chapter proves it.

This is how to stay close (abide in) to God. It is (again) referring to sanctification, growth, and personal relationship.

This is for our joy. Salvation is assumed. Not loving one another will take away your joy.

Friend. Thats better, deeper, closer, than servant.

He is telling us as saved individuals how to be fruitful. It is absoultely talking about sanctification. To rip these verses out of their context and use them as some sort of litmus test for justification is wrong.

Lacy

 

Where do you get pologamy from this?

I just refer back to Adam and Eve and let it go at that.

 

I thought His love was His Grace and if you don't abide in His Grace then I can't see how you are saved.

another condition: If ye keep my commandments

I am amazed at how many spend this much time to advocate the saved sin as the world. amazing.

I know you didn't miss this part. if ye do whatsoever I command you.

I am sorry but I believe in taking it all, there is a condition in this scripture. These things I command you, that ye love one another.

 

Bob, I have no problem saying that a Christian is capable of committing any sin. I have and do say it, even in front of my own congregation. Yes I preach it publicly. Don't put words in my mouth. I resent that very much. Because I say that a Christian is capable (even me or you), is in no way an admission that I already have committed any of the aforesaid sins. Don't falsely accuse.