Will a Christian commit certain sins?

Well Bro. Bob let me explain it again. I'm like you I like the KISS principal and I guess it wasn't simple enough the way I described it, my apologies.

Unfortunately today terms have changed meanings and instead of Scripture talk we get religion talk. Christian happens to be one of those words that has taken on a religious meaning and gotten away from its Scriptural use.

Today if you want to know if somone is saved or not you ask them if they are a Christian. Well most people do anyway. Or if someone says they are a Christian you think they are saved.

But as HBSMN has so clearly pointed out the word Christian is not about whether someone is "saved" or not, but whether someone is Christ-like or not.

The word was coined by unsaved folks in regard to saved folks based on their actions. They were acting Christ-like.

So one can be saved but not a Christian. Just like someone can be saved, but not a disciple. Being saved does not make you act like Christ. Being saved does not make you a disciple.

Whether or not you act like Christ or whether you are a disciple is a day-by-day moment-by-moment decision a person has to make. That decision can only be made after someone is saved. An unsaved person can't even make that choice because they are in capable of acting in the Spiritual realm. They are spiritually dead until they are saved.

So these folks in I Corinthians 6 could very well have committed these "horrible" sins as saved individuals. They certainly were not Christians in the sense that they were not acting Christ-like.

Hope that helps.

 

Bro. Bob as you do quite often you prove my point for me in your own posts when you are trying to prove yours.

Paul was talking about a "THORN" in his flesh not his entire flesh. You said God's grace keeps the flesh (all of it), but yet you use a text of Scripture that is talking about a "THORN" in the flesh, not the entire flesh. And nothing in that text says kept by God's grace.

God told Paul that His grace was sufficient enough that Paul could manage without this "THORN" removed.

This does not even come remotely close to saying that God's grace keeps a person from committing certain sins. Not even close.

Now there is some debate as to whether this was a physical ailment or whether this was a demon that was causing Paul issues. It doesn't really matter which it was, because God says His grace is sufficient whatever it was. So if someone has a physical ailment such as a lost limb or bad eyesight or whatever that is not an excuse and they can live wtih it because God's grace is sufficient for that area of perceived lack.


Quote:
It means that whatever our throne in the flesh is it doesn't have to overtake us because God's grace is sufficient for us. That doesn't mean that we take advantage of it.

By taking advantage of it I mean that God doesn't force you to do the right thing. He gives you a choice. You can either be obedient or you can be a rebel. He has given you all the tools to allow you to succeed in the right choice, but that doesn't mean you or I will always take advantage of God's grace.

Again hope this clears up what I was talking about.

 

To lead us and guide us into all Truth. There are other reasons as well. But the Holy Spirit does not force Himself onto us or we would not be able to quench the Spirit or grieve the Spirit. Whether we live by Spirit/walk in the Spirit is a day-by-day moment-by-moment choice.

He has Absolute Power! But that doesn't mean that we take advantage of it.

Yes discipline means correction after wrong doing.

I think God will not allow us to be tempted to sin above that which we are able to withstand. So in a way I guess that is preventing us from sinning.

But that doesn't mean that He keeps everyone out of temptation of murder, adultery, or whatever other sin you want to consider "horrible."

 

Great question. I am going to PM you a couple of great resources that will answer that question in great detail.

 

You have obviously convinced yourself that your little fairy tale is true. Well so be it. Live in non-reality world if you want to.

Again more of your lies. This is all you people can do. You can't defend your own beliefs. You can't debunk anything else so you resort to lying about what others believe and when that doesn't work . . .

You start throwing around the "heretical" "heretic" labels to scare people. "I can't disprove what they are saying, but I'll just call them heretics and that way people want study out the matter for themselves."

But HBSMN you will have to answer for your accusations and your name calling and such and you better hope you are right, because I think bearing false witness is not such a pleasant thing if I remember correctly!

 

I would ask conversly, If we are incapable as believers, of committing gross sin, then why does the same Holy Spirit commit so much scripture to warning us not to?

Like warning a kid not to play in the street when there is no street.

Amy do you honestly believe that a Christian is incapable of fornication or murder? If we can be tempted, we are capable of yielding to that temptation. The Holy Spirit will "make a way out" but we don't have to take it! Why would God, our Father, ever need to chasten us if we were incapable of sin?

Yet are we not promised chastening, and in fact doesn't the Scripture says that said chastening proves that God is our (good) Father?

"I will prove to you that I am a good Father by chastening you when you need it but you won't ever really need it if you are a "truely saved" son or daughter."???????

Lacy

 

The doctrine that God's people will spend 1000 years in hell cannot be found in the Word of God anywhere. It is, therefore, heretical. Anyone who accepts it as gospel is being decieved greatly.

Prove you are not lying by showing the verses that say the Child of God will spend 1,000 years in hell, or stop posting that which is not there, J.Jump.

 

It is good that the Lord gives us scripture, so when someone comes along and says that a saved person with the mind of Christ and the indwelling Holy Spirit, can commit such sins as molesting their own 5 year old child is doctrine, then we can use such scripture to prove, that such doctrine is heresy. Sometimes I think the Lord sheds a tear when he hears such advocation to people, so they settle down on something short of salvation, and the blind lead he blind and both fall in the ditch.

The following is scripture and not a bunch of words, which are the ways of man which seemeth right, but the end thereof is death.

1 Corth.
9: Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10: Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11: And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Romans, chapter 8
1: There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2: For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3: For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5: For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6: For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7: Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8: So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.


Romans :9: But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.


Heb. 10:
26: For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27: But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28: He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30: For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31: It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Amy, I don't think I have to try and convince you. I believe the Lord showed you the way of truth. Let me say this anyway, if you follow the advice and scripture I have given you from the Lord, you can't go wrong. The closer we live to the Lord the more blessings we will have.
For those who would follow the advice of those who say you can commit horrendeous acts of sin and still go to Heaven, just suppose they were teaching you wrong and in the judgement you came up short.
You can't live too close to God, but you can live too far away. God bless all and I pray you follow the teachings of the Lord and make it as sure as you can while you live, for ever how death finds you so shall the resurrection receive you. For those who accuse me and the others I ask you, who do you think God is more pleased with, someone who teaches to live close to the Lord or someone who teaches you can even molest your own child. I think that should be a easy answer. We will all answer for every word that comes out of our mouth.

 

Enjoyed this correct answer on this subject, and your presentation, agreeing fully.

We are not made perfect upon salvation. We can never be perfect as long as we are in these bodies, with its strong desire to sin, and any of us are capable of doing dastardly things, that make us sick to our stomach.

Without meaning to iinfringe I believe this a good place to show differences in love. The Corinthian church is a loving and permissive church. That is their problem as they really don't understand love, for they are the type that would think it sinful to spank little Billy, or Suzy, for it would hurt their feelings, and damage them for life.

This church is like so very many, viz. Christians that do not understand the freedom and liberty they have in Christ. It must be tempered, and restrained, yet all things are lawful for us, but all not are not expedient, and we must fight the power of sin, I Corinthians 6:12. We don't fight for our salvation, but for our rewards, giving the glory to God, and for the cause of Christ, as giving forte to the world to point their fingers at us and say, "they are no different than we, and they are going to the same place we are."

Again, it is good to see clear understanding on this board, as some other members also have.

 

Hi Helen. We are sealed in by the Holy Spirit, and in Him we have access to our Father in heaven through our Lord Jesus Christ. If we depend on the Holy Spirit to keep us from sinning, then why the Cross? I believe if this was so, keep us from sinning, it would mean all of our sins have not been taken care of at the Cross, and He would be running around "Look I found a sin not taken care of by Jesus". When we go back to the Cross that is where our wins were taken care of. We are not sinless, and when we do sin, that sin is at the Cross.

We work out our own salvation, and most give it their best shot. But we are who we are, and we are going to sin at least once in our Christian faith, and when we do we have committed sin that encompasses all sins.

 

The world would have a right to point their finger at you if you are an adultereous. In prison they have different areas for different gangs. According to some they need an area for "born again Christians" so when people walk by and see all the murderers, adulterers, child molestors, liars all the people the scripture says can't go to Heaven and the rest of the prisoners can say "over there are the Born again Christians". Hogwash. Your doctrine has led to some saying they are capable of molesting their own children!

Jesus Himself said "there is a sin and there is a sin unto death". Shall we sin that Grace may abound? "God forbid", or we can make up our own suggestion so it will allow sin unto death I guess. In other words, "we just try not to molest children". yikes!!!

I will teach obedience and you can teach what you want. I always felt safe to leave my children with "born again Christians", but you all scare me, if they are capable of what you say! We preach that you don't have to be afraid of a man or woman of God, but not according to the belief being advocated on this board. It is sad indeed to think that among the "saved" are child molestors, murderers, adulterers, homosexuals. I wonder what John the Baptist meant when he said "bring ye fruit meet for repentance"? What did Jesus mean "You will know a tree by the fruit it bears".

1 Corth.
9: Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10: Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11: And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

 

I said anyone is capable of any sin. This is because freewill exists. Many factors can lead a person to sin. I certinly am sure I wouldnt molest my children. In the bible it says if we commit one 'sin' we break the whole law. Sin is breaking any of God's laws or offending God with your thoughts, deeds or actions. Where in the bible does it say certain sins are worse than others? Doesnt it also say those who get angry with his brother will stand in judgment? The point is if you miss the mark of perfection slightly or by allot you still missed it. I Think we should thank God that we have a sane mind and know the difference between right and wrong. I certainly think a child of God shouldnt commit such sins since even the ungodly world condemns such behavior; shouldnt we as christians be the salt of the earth and be examples. I do however think we all sin and one sins is the same as commiting a million sins; its punishable by eternal death. UNLESS WE ARE BORN AGAIN AND COVERED BY THE BLOOD OF THE LORD JESUS!

PS: I dont think a person with a "SANE" mind would molest a child...

The Holy Spirit is the spirit of truth that will lead you into all truth and will guide you in life and help you live victorious lives in christ; and provide you with the abundant life christ promised. The holy spirit is the 'proof' that you are sealed in christ in his death and resurrection! If a person doesnt have the spirit of God living in them then they can by no means enter the kingdom of God! The holy spirit also helps you break free of addictions and become conformed to the image of God which is Christ Jesus.

 

My doctrine has led you to say that about me(for shock value, I presume). I haven't seen anyone else say it. What a horrible thing for a Christian to say about another brother just to win an argument. I think bearing false witness is still one of the ten commandments. I wonder if this qualifies as one of the "gross sins" of which you claim to be incapable of being tempted with..

No in fact we are warned that if we do these things we will not inherit the Kingdom. Our heavenly father will chasten us severly at the Judgment seat of Christ.

What does your doctrine say?

The fornicator, the adulterer, etc loses his salvation?
He was never saved to begin with?
Something else that I may not have thought of?

How are those any different that the Roman catholic doctrine of faith plus works?

You need to watch who you leave your children with nomatter what they say they are

It is sad to think that a brother in order to win an argument would leap blindly from "A christian is capable" to this strange line of reasoning that has such obvious shades of accusation.

".

I think he probably meant "bring ye fruit meet for repentance." and ""You will know a tree by the fruit it bears"

As ususual you give your "proof text" and assume that your interpretations are clearly written.

Kingdom of God=Kingdom of God
It is not the same as salvation.

We are saved by free grace alone.

We enter the (Millennial) Kingdom through suffering, resisting temptation, obedience, and watchfulness.

2Ti 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Acts 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

Romans 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Thessalonians 1:4-8
4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

1 Peter 4:13-16
13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.
15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.
[BOB's VERSION says "ignore that last verse because it is impossible"]
16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Matthew 5:10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 25:21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

 

Lacy, in your argument, you are assuming that some Christians are not going to suffer and therefore be excluded from the Kingdom of God.

My Bible tells me different:

2 Timothy 3:12 (KJV) Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

Those who are saved are in Christ Jesus. Being in Christ, they will suffer in one form or another.

None who are in Christ will be excluded from the Kingdom.

 

I think it strange that people will claim the saved individual is incapable of committing certain horrible (mortal?) sins, because they are sealed by the Holy Spirit or whatever reason, but then say that the same Holy Spirit is not able to keep the person from committing the little (venial?) sins. If a Christian can tell a lie, a Christian can steal. If a Christian can steal, a Christian can kill. What reasoning can you come up with to explain why certain sins are possible for Christians while others are not?

David was a man after God's own heart, but I wouldn't leave him alone with my wife.

 

This haywire line of reasoning proves nothing.

Would you molest your children?

No.

See there, that proves that a christian can't molest his children!

What kind of argument is that?

Just because I wouldn't molest my children, then that proves that a Christian is incapable of sinning?

Peter denied Christ and cut off a man's ear. Does that prove he wasn't saved?

Annanias and Sapphira lied. Oops I guess they were never really saved. John Mark gave up when the going got tough and abandoned Paul. Musta not been saved.

Have you ever sinned? Does that prove you aren't saved?

Lacy

 

Jesus never said those things Bob. Study your Bible better.
Second, You keep throwing around this "there is a sin unto death verse," without defining what it is." The threat is meaningless without a definintion. Is your anger a sin unto death? Why or why not? If you transgress the God's law in one area it is just as bad as if you have transgressed all of God's law. Sin is sin. God is no respector of persons. And that includes sin; for sin is a transgression of the law.