Will the rapture be delayed by Bush?

[Pennsylvania Jim]

It might take four more years to get through to you, CMG.

 

[blackbird]

If the rapture is delayed(in which it won't be) but by chance if it were---Penn Jim will find a way to blame

"Dub-ya"
"Newt G."
"Trent Lott"

and a host of other "good ole God bless the USA, Momma's team, baseball, apple pie, hotdogs, et el" GOP runners!!

 

[Pennsylvania Jim]

blackbird:

If you think the liberals who dominate the GOP are "good ole God bless the USA, Momma's team, baseball, apple pie, hotdogs, et el", I'm not sure what to say.

 

[Hardsheller]

Originally posted by church mouse guy:
It is not me. It is the over 59 million who voted for Bush and gave him a small majority.

Losers should offer aid, not more politics, but then the Constitution Party is a real loser in every sense, isn't it?

Correction CMG, the Correct Number is over 60 million.

 

[Pennsylvania Jim]

How do you like being in the majority?

 

[poncho]

Would that be the Diebold and ES&S majority?

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Gina L:
Why bother voting for Christian representatives? Wouldn't it hasten the endtimes if we let the world go and didn't concern ourselves with politics?

I dunno about anyone else, but I vote for people who I feel are going to be the most effective leaders. Their religious affiliation is secondary to me. We've had a lot of good non-Christian leadership (many of our founding fathers were non-Christian), and we've had a lot of adequate-at-best Christian leadership (Van Buren, Carter, etc).

Don't we want and long for the end?

No. I dont' long for the end. That would be taking the easy way out. I long for God giving me the wisdom to see the blessings He has given me, right here, right now, and the courage to do His will while I'm on the earth.

Could we all have either not voted or voted for someone with low standards and been able to rationalize it?

That's just plain silly. You think too much like me

Weird question I know, but if we are to believe that in the end nothing will change the timing of the end of time and that sin will get worse until that point in time, why do we bother trying to stop it, especially if one believes their salvation is already secure no matter what they do with it?

If nothing will change the end time, it doesn't change our responsibility to live here and now. One might as well ask, if we're so emminently worried about the end times, why should we buy life insurance or put our money in retirement funds?

I went to college with a girl who never spent much time studying, because she was convinced that the Lord was going to return before she graduated. That was 18 years ago, and her failing grades forced her to leave college.

 

[Grasshopper]

Why bother voting for Christian representatives? Wouldn't it hasten the endtimes if we let the world go and didn't concern ourselves with politics? Don't we want and long for the end? Could we all have either not voted or voted for someone with low standards and been able to rationalize it?

Whether this is tongue in cheek or not, unfortunately many in the church take this view. If Armeggedon comes it will be our own doing and be a self-fulfilling prophecy. This type of thought is what is now driving our foreign policy. We have decided that a group of atheist and agnostics living in the modern state of Israel are somehow God's chosen people. So we scorn on the Palestinian people and throw them out of their homes and give it to foriegn refugees who have no lineage to the Jews of Jesus's day. If Tom Arnold decided to move to Israel, should we throw out a Palestinian family so he could live in Israel?

End time? Where does that phrase appear in the Bible?

Last Days? Yes, Heb. 1:1-2. Those were 2000 years ago.

 

[LadyEagle]

Whether this is tongue in cheek or not, unfortunately many in the church take this view. If Armeggedon comes it will be our own doing and be a self-fulfilling prophecy. This type of thought is what is now driving our foreign policy. We have decided that a group of atheist and agnostics living in the modern state of Israel are somehow God's chosen people. So we scorn on the Palestinian people and throw them out of their homes and give it to foriegn refugees who have no lineage to the Jews of Jesus's day. If Tom Arnold decided to move to Israel, should we throw out a Palestinian family so he could live in Israel?

What a disgusting, venomous, anti-Semitic post.

Heil.

 

[Pennsylvania Jim]

What is anti-Semitic about it, specifically?

 

[Gina B]

That's true Grasshopper. I've heard Christians seriously ask why we bother trying so hard when the end result is already decided and spelled out in the Bible. One asked in Sunday school the other week.
And as for the muslims in that area, where ARE they going to go? Where is home to them?
LE, what DO you call forcing people to live in only certain areas of their hometown and having guards on the street of one nationality and the border of another?
Gina

 

[LadyEagle]

And as for the muslims in that area, where ARE they going to go? Where is home to them?

Into Arab lands, where they were supposed to go to begin with. Transjordan. You forget Arafat was Egyptian.

LE, what DO you call forcing people to live in only certain areas of their hometown and having guards on the street of one nationality and the border of another?
Gina

Boxing in terrorists.
http://www.pmw.org.il/

 

[bonniej]

After reading all of the post, there seems to be a mixture of politics and the rapture. I'm not sure they go together but then they might. As for my belief, I don't believe we will see the second coming of Christ until ALL have had a chance to hear about our Savior. There are those in China who have not had the chance and I'm pretty sure there are other parts of the world that have not either, even with all of our technology. I'm one that believes the Christians will be taken before the "real" tribulation starts. I believe we are in somewhat of a tribulation now. Things keep going faster and faster and seem to be snowballing and there's nothing we can do to stop it. It doesn't matter who is in office, God is the one in control and the Bible tells us that no one knows, not the day or the hour, but to be ready when the time comes. As a Christian and having gone through alot the last 30 some odd years, I would selfishly want him to come this very minute but I wish that none should perish. Someone ask why we would want someone in office if Jesus was going to come back so what difference did it make. It makes alot of differene when Jesus told us to go and tell, it makes alot of difference if you have a Godly president in office who will atleast try to stand for our unborn babies. If Kerry had taken office, I have no doubt our country would have been left wide open for any and all terrorist to come in and destroy this country. Atleast for the next 4 yrs, unless the rapture occurs, we know that we have a president who will defend this country come hell or high water. Whether he's right in all he does - I doubt it but atleast he's not like Clinton who left our soliders in and I can't remember now where it was but they needed aid and he didn't send it. There was a movie about it. Bush is not perfect - I would not want his job but I believe God put him there for a purpose. The world is getting so bad - remember Noah and what all went on in his day - that God will tire of it and that's when the rapture will occur. My mother says she sure will be disappointed if we aren't raptured up first and I'm with her. I don't want to be here during the tribulation. I've had enough of it already and what I've had is just a little bitty smidgen of what the real tribuation will be like. As for the comment about Israel. The Jews are Gods' chosen people, dont' you think it will be them that will be included in that 144,000? I just read the scripture pertaining to that in Rev. 14 And is says " And looked, and behold, the Lamb was standing on Mount Zion and with Him one hundred and fory-four thousand, having His name and the name of His father written on their foreheads (2) And I heard a voice from heaven, like the sound of many waters and lie the sound of loud thunder and the voice which I heard was like the sound of harpist playing on their harps and I'm going to skip to verse 4 because it says "These are the ones who have not been defiled with women for they have kept themselves chaste. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These have been purchased from among men as first fruits to God and to the Lamb. So it sounds like these people will be just men and no women - I had never thought of that before.
We all just need to be ready and share the gospel whenever and wherever we can so that all will have that opportunity to be in that New heaven and that New earth as described in Rev. 21

 

[LadyEagle]

Well, you see, Bonnie, the problem with grasshopper and others who post around here, don't believe the prophecies in Revelation are literal, just "figurative," and some of the same ones who post here believe the church has replaced the nation of Israel.

If Kerry had taken office, I have no doubt our country would have been left wide open for any and all terrorist to come in and destroy this country. Atleast for the next 4 yrs, unless the rapture occurs, we know that we have a president who will defend this country come hell or high water.

As far as President Bush goes defending our nation come hell or high water, and not leaving our country wide open for terrorists to come in and destroy this country, President Bush wants to grant millions of illegal aliens amnesty and he has refused to deport thousands (about 30,000 I think it was) Muslim illegal aliens. So he is not really defending our country, either. He refuses to put our military on our porous borders and we still have thousands of illegals a day pouring into our country, some leaving their prayer rugs and Qurans behind. So much for that. Kerry and Bush are pretty much the same on the illegal alien and immigration issues.

 

[Pennsylvania Jim]

Originally posted by LadyEagle:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />
LE, what DO you call forcing people to live in only certain areas of their hometown and having guards on the street of one nationality and the border of another?
Gina

Boxing in terrorists.
http://www.pmw.org.il/ </font>[/QUOTE]LE,

I have friends who live in Bethlehem. Their family has been there for generations. They are Christians. They are fortunate not to be in a refuge camp.

You accuse anyone who is critical of the Israeli government to be hateful and anti-Semitic, yet speak this way of your Christian brothers and sisters.

I would like to suggest that you consider that your ideas about the middle east are somewhat lacking in truth and fairness.

 

[LadyEagle]

The question was asked about Muslims living in the area, PA Jim.

Consider these facts about Palestinian Christians, please:

Situation in areas controlled by the Palestinian Authority
After World War II, Bethlehem, the birthplace of Jesus, was 80% Christian and Nazareth 60%. Now those percentages are 20% and 30% respectively, and are shrinking. Jerusalem Christians were a plurality in the 1920s; today, they number under 2 percent of the city's population.

Serious violations of religious freedom are reported from within the Palestinian Authority, especially the persecution of Muslims who have converted to Christianity. In the Christian town of Bet Jella, a human rights lawyer reported brutal interrogation methods and arbitrary arrests based on fabricated criminal charges against Muslims who have converted to Christianity and their families. His report includes testimony about torture from victims who were terrified to criticize the Palestinian Authority and their secret police.

In Nazareth, the Christian population has decreased dramatically due to the rise and spread of militant Islam. The Islamic Movement (a radical Muslim group) has demanded the construction of a mosque near the Church of the Annunciation, a mosque even some moderate Muslims oppose. On Easter, 1999, the Muslim group burned Christian stores and targeted Christians over the issue; attempts to intervene were frustrated because Christians are terrified to speak out.

Hundreds of Christian families have left Palestinian towns like Bet Jella and Bethlehem during the al-Aqsa intifada, caught literally in the crossfire between Palestinians and Israelis. On the West Bank, a nearly-permanent Muslim boycott of Christian businesses is achieving its objective: driving the Christians to emigrate.

In October 2000, Christians were attacked in Gaza after a Palestinian Muslim leader called for a "jihad" against both Jews and Christians.

In February 2002 a Muslim mob, including Palestinian Authority Special Forces, burned Christian businesses and attempted to destroy the Greek Orthodox and Roman Catholic churches in Ramallah. The attack occurred after a Christian man killed a Muslim while being pursued by a Muslim gang because he refused to pay protection money for safe passage to his home.

source

BTW, do you care as much for the Christians living in other Muslim lands, such as Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, etc.?

I applaud the Israelis and Israeli government for showing restraint. Wonder how long Americans will show such restraint against Muslims when the homicide bombings start happening in our pizza parlors, malls, sports arenas, churches, synagogues, and other public places here in the US? And they will.

 

[Pennsylvania Jim]

The Christians are caught between the Israeli government and the muslims. But, regardless of religion, nobody should have their property taken away.

I have nothing against Israel. Why do you ask if I care as much about Christians in muslim lands? I have no axe to grind. And, for the record, I have sent money, food, and toys to Christian children in muslim countries, but have never given a cent to anyone in Israel/Palestine. Not that I wouldn't, I just haven't.

I think that you are very mistaken, though, if you think the Israeli government is consistently, solidly in the right, and the palestinian people are mostly terrorists.

 

[Grasshopper]

Well, you see, Bonnie, the problem with grasshopper and others who post around here, don't believe the prophecies in Revelation are literal, just "figurative," and some of the same ones who post here believe the church has replaced the nation of Israel.

I follow in the footsteps of my Baptist forefathers such as Spurgeon and Gill. They too were anti-semetic I guess. Why do you hate the Palestinian people?

I ask again, If Tom Arnold decided to move to Israel should we throw a Palestinian family out of their home?

 

[Pennsylvania Jim]

I asked Lady Eagle what, specifically, was anti-semitic about your post. I'd like to know.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Pennsylvania Jim:
The Christians are caught between the Israeli government and the muslims. But, regardless of religion, nobody should have their property taken away.

I agree. Doesn't matter what that person's ethnic or religious background is.

I have nothing against Israel... I think that you are very mistaken, though, if you think the Israeli government is consistently, solidly in the right, and the palestinian people are mostly terrorists.

I agree on this as well. While it cannot be denied that the there are a lot of Palestinian terrorists, and that most of the terrorist acts are Palestian against Israeli, it is patently false to presume that the average Palestinian is a terrorist. The average Palestinian is typically a blue collar worker who wants to do nothing more than mind his own business and feed his family. He typically lives in a Palestinian territory and works in Israel, and loses the ability to work every time a Palestinian suicide bomber blows himself up and forces Israel to close the borders to protect themselves.