Will the return of Christ be in 2 stages?

[revmwc]

Calypsis4,

If the 7 year tribulation period was Biblical, I would expect at least one New Testament writer to have mentioned it, but you readily admit above none did. The reason being is because it is not Biblical.

Of course, I know of Daniel's prophecy of the seventy weeks and disagree with you misapplying it to support your teaching of a 7 year pre-tribulation rapture doctrine. Lord willing I hope in the next few weeks to start a thread on Daniel's prophecy and you are more than welcomed to participate if you can put up with me (lol), but that is a whole other topic and we are getting off the subject of the OP which is the two stage theory of the return of Christ. Unless you wish to correspond further regarding the OP this will be last post to you (I know I said that in the prior post, but after I posted your post above appeared in my in box).

Paul alluded to the tribulation and the removal of the church in 2 Thessalonians 2:
"6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness"
This is the tribulation and we see the Holy Spirit removed from the earth in verse 7 and when He is removed so too the church is removed and then the tribulation or the time of God's wrath in the Revelation of Jesus comes when the wicked one will be revealed who is satan's man. Jesus also taught it in Matthew 24:29, after the tribulation of those days, that of course is the seven year tribulation and according Revelation 18 the sun is darkened and the moon shall not give her light.
So it is alluded too in other N.T. writtings

 

[BrotherJoseph]

Paul alluded to the tribulation and the removal of the church in 2 Thessalonians 2:
. Jesus also taught it in Matthew 24:29, after the tribulation of those days, that of course is the seven year tribulation and according Revelation 18 the sun is darkened and the moon shall not give her light.
So it is alluded too in other N.T. writtings

Brother Revmwc

I do not see a "seven year period" mentioned in 2 Thess 2, Mathew 24, or Revelation 18 or anywhere in the New Testament for that matter. What verses mention "7 years" in the New Testament? None. Zip. Nadda. What verses from the New Testament are you getting the seven year time frame?

I do not deny there was a tribulation prophesied in Matthew 24, but it says nothing of a "seven year period" in that chapter and if you look at the prophecy as a whole it very much fits the burning of the temple, the destruction of Jerusalem, and the dispersing of the Jews throughout all the nations. The return of Christ mentioned in that chapter is yet to come.

 

[BrotherJoseph]

Jesus also taught it in Matthew 24:29, after the tribulation of those days, that of course is the seven year tribulation

Brother Revmwc,

The Bible teaches that at the time of the second coming, the end of the age, people will be eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, planting and building, buying and selling (see Luke 17:26-30). Accordingly, things wills be continuing in what will be considered a normal, routine pattern. People will be saying "Peace and safety" (1 Thessalonians 5:3). But if your 7 year tribulation theory before Christ's coming doctrine is true and "all hell will break lose" upon the earth in the way some proclaim, surely after undergoing this for seven years, people would not be saying "Peace and safety". This is but one of many inconsistencies with the 7 year tribulation position in relation to New Testament teachings on the end.

 

[revmwc]

Brother Revmwc,

The Bible teaches that at the time of the second coming, the end of the age, people will be eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, planting and building, buying and selling (see Luke 17:26-30). Accordingly, things wills be continuing in what will be considered a normal, routine pattern. People will be saying "Peace and safety" (1 Thessalonians 5:3). But if your 7 year tribulation theory before Christ's coming doctrine is true and "all hell will break lose" upon the earth in the way some proclaim, surely after undergoing this for seven years, people would not be saying "Peace and safety". This is but one of many inconsistencies with the 7 year tribulation position in relation to New Testament teachings on the end.

Not my theory Revelation is clear and lost two definite 3 1/2 years periods of Tribulation upon mankind

 

[Calypsis4]

Not my theory Revelation is clear and lost two definite 3 1/2 years periods of Tribulation upon mankind

Think about it: the seven years tribulation is concluded by mere addition:

Re 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Re 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

42 months + 42 months = 7 years.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Think about it: the seven years tribulation is concluded by mere addition:

Re 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Re 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

42 months + 42 months = 7 years.

But on that basis, you have left out part of the addition. Rev. 11:3. And I will give power to My two witnesses, and they will prophesy 1,260 days.....'
1260 days = 42 months. So 42+42+42 months = 10.5 years. Wink

Or just maybe these times are actually symbolic. Cool 3.5 years was the time of the drought and Elijah's witness to an unbelieving Israel.

 

[beameup]

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand) Matt 24:15
But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand) Mark 13:14

3 1/2 years = 42 months = 1260 days (anyway it is "sliced", it equals the same time-frame)
The "breaking point" (when "all hell breaks loose") in the middle of Daniel's 70th shabuwa` (literally "seven") is the Abomination of Desolation. Jesus gives you the "clue" to look into Daniel 9:24-27.

Paul gives additional details to the Abomination of Desolation in 2 Thess 2:4
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the Temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

 

[Calypsis4]

But on that basis, you have left out part of the addition. Rev. 11:3. And I will give power to My two witnesses, and they will prophesy 1,260 days.....'
1260 days = 42 months. So 42+42+42 months = 10.5 years. Wink

Or just maybe these times are actually symbolic. Cool 3.5 years was the time of the drought and Elijah's witness to an unbelieving Israel.

Not so. There is a definite reason why God laid down the phrase, "Forty and two months". The Holy Spirit never does anything willy nilly nor by chance. The truth is that Daniel gives us the first and bottom line in the 70th week of Daniel. That week is made up of seven days which = one year for each day. I referenced the reason for this above as found in Numbers.

There will be a seven year tribulation and the passing of time which reveal that fact. And at the end of things when we are all looking back upon what's happened there will be no more arguments.

 

[revmwc]

But on that basis, you have left out part of the addition. Rev. 11:3. And I will give power to My two witnesses, and they will prophesy 1,260 days.....'
1260 days = 42 months. So 42+42+42 months = 10.5 years. Wink

Or just maybe these times are actually symbolic. 3.5 years was the time of the drought and Elijah's witness to an unbelieving Israel.

At the same time as the Beast of the second 3 1/2 year these witnesses are on the earth proclaiming for we are told he finally kills them when God allows.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

At the same time as the Beast of the second 3 1/2 year these witnesses are on the earth proclaiming for we are told he finally kills them when God allows.

My friend, you will find the Book of Revelation far more practical help to you if you realise that the two beasts are with us right now, and that they are treading the holy city under foot at this very moment, and that Christian witness is going on right now and the beats are not able to stop it until almost the very end.

Then you will be like the men of Issachar, who had understanding of the times (1 Chronicles 12:32).

 

[revmwc]

My friend, you will find the Book of Revelation far more practical help to you if you realise that the two beasts are with us right now, and that they are treading the holy city under foot at this very moment, and that Christian witness is going on right now and the beats are not able to stop it until almost the very end.

Then you will be like the men of Issachar, who had understanding of the times (1 Chronicles 12:32).

My friend, you will find the Book of Revelation far more practical help to you if you realise that the two beasts are with us right now, and that they are treading the holy city under foot at this very moment, and that Christian witness is going on right now and the beats are not able to stop it until almost the very end.

Then you will be like the men of Issachar, who had understanding of the times (1 Chronicles 12:32).

But the two witnesses are not and there is no false Messiah in Israel as one of the beast in Revelation is