Will There Be a Future Literal 1000-Year Reign of Christ on the Earth?

[Martin Marprelate]

I find no reason in Scripture to believe that the 144.000 in Revelation is a symbolic number. If you have some compelling biblical evidence to show why it is and must be symbolic . . .

We shall only know for sure when your putative 144,000 people finally show up, but I find it strange that Ephraim and Dan are missing, yet there are still twelve tribes. Ephraim and Dan, of course, are those tribes that were the centres for idolatry (1 Kings 12:27-29).
But consider this: John 'hears' the number of those who are sealed (Revelation 7:4), but when he 'looks,' he sees 'a great multitude which no one could number' (Revelation 7:9). It is my contention that these are the same people. They are a covenant number that is known to God (the 12 tribes of Israel times the 12 apostles times as many as there are), but unknown to man.

 

[Aaron]

Your caricaturing my views does not speak well of your valuing the need to represent properly the views of people with whom you disagree. You have some heart issues that you need to deal with so that you can interact properly, the way a Christian should.

I don't think it's a caricature at all.

So, are you going counter the argument or just virtue-signal?

 

[Alan Gross]

THIS IS ONE OF HUNDREDS OF EXAMPLES of the OP.
from "A Case for Amillennialism", by Kim Riddjebarger:

"The famous notes of the Scofield Reference Bible (1909) say that from a dispensational perspective James's speech is the most important in the New Testament. According to Scofield, James is describing what will happen after the church age concludes ("after this"), i.e., in the millennium, when God will reestablish a Davidic rule over Israel.

If this is true, when Paul and Barnabas sought guidance for a concern that was immediate to them (Should Gentile converts be circumcised?), James responded by pointing to a future millennium thousands of years distant. 16

Here is one instance in which dispensational presuppositions get in the way of the plain sense of the text.

Scofield interprets the text literalistically, not literally.

Dispensationalists are often forced to reinterpret any New Testament data that does not fit in their Ol d Testament-derived prophetic scheme.

Dispensational presuppositions will not fit with much of the interpretation supplied to Old Testament data by New Testament authors.

A thorough survey of both Old Testament and New Testament eschatological categories will demonstrate the dispensational hermeneutic to be untenable.

More importantly, such a survey gives us the proper framework and external controls to interpret prophetic sections of Scripture correctly.

The irony is that dispensationalists' practice of interpreting all prophetic texts in a literalistic fashion amount to a repudiation of the historic Protestant hermeneutic and the principle of the analogy of faith.

If amillenarians adopt the New Testament writers' interpretation of the Old Testament, are they not following the literal sense of Scripture, even if the New Testament writers universalize something that was limited to Israel in the Old Testament?

The dispensationalists' literalistic reading of prophetic passages must not be confused with a literal reading.

A literal reading—a reading that gets at the plain sense of the text—will allow the New Testament to interpret the Old.

It is amillenarians, not dispensationalists, who interpret prophecy literally in that they follow the literal sense of how the writers of the New Testament interpret Old Testament prophecy."

 

[Iconoclast]

All are future events.

These happened already...you have no answer..just poppycock.
If you cannot answer it is because you are inventing your own scenario from outside the bible.

 

[Yeshua1]

Sorry, wise guy, the text means what it says. You can read. They are believing Israelites that God will use in the future for a special purpose. I do not have any explanation for why it will be 144k. Not having an explanation does not mean that it is symbolic.

if symbolic only, then why would we have each tribe listed and given to us?

 

[Yeshua1]

why do you guys have to see "election" in every verse? Universal salvation is a heresy; universal Death of Jesus Christ, IS 100% Bible, for those who don't have any hang-ups

Election is from Genesis thru to Revelation as a doctrine!

 

[robycop3]

These happened already...you have no answer..just poppycock.

I have the "ace of trumps" answer-THEY'RE NOT FOUND IN HISTORY!

That's why preterism is poppycock.

 

[Yeshua1]

The poster has heard one view. He most likely is not certain of any other.
He should learn how others come to a different understanding first before attacking other positions
He starts threads hoping others can bail him out.
If the water gets to deep, he opts out and goes back to the kiddie pool.
He then suggests that all others need not apply.
This is not the best way to go about it, but he is "more accurate ".

Lets have we who are Covenant premil side with Dispy now on the issue of a literal Kingdom and a literal view on prophecy!

 

[Yeshua1]

They all happened before during the fall of idumea, babylon, and Israel.
Isa13, Isa34, Joel 2, Acts 2.
They were symbols of Government being fallen and replaced.
They are symbols with a literal meaning.

The Second Coming ushers in the Kingdom age in its fullness!

 

[SavedByGrace]

Election is from Genesis thru to Revelation as a doctrine!

but NOT the way the Reformed/Calvinist push it

 

[Yeshua1]

Thanks for your partial response.
If it speaks of the Historical nation of Babylon where do you see Jesus or any future judgment mentioned?
What about the language used of birth pangs of a woman in childbirth?
What happened in the language of verse ten?
What about the shaking of the "heavens" and the earth moving out of its place?
Now in isa34:4.
Did the heavens literally be rolled up like a scroll?
Take your time and give some details of this historic event?
How did time continue if it was rolled up and dissolved?
How if stars fall from heaven is earth still here?

Will there be literally a time on earth where no wars, famines, diseases?

 

[Yeshua1]

but NOT the way the Reformed/Calvinist push it

What is any other way?

 

[Yeshua1]

I deleted my first response to this post, because I've changed my mind. It is evident you believe that the Cross was Plan B. (Maybe plan C*.) That had the Jews received their Messiah in the First Century, something like the Millennium would have begun at that time and probably with no end.

Let's talk about the "overwhelming host of verses" that dispels that inglorious little notion instead.

*Insincere gospel offer Part 2

Church is Plan A for God, as is the Kingdom of the Millennium!

 

[SavedByGrace]

What is any other way?

yes, the Bible way, that after a sinner becomes a believer, they joint the Church of Jesus Christ, where "ἐκκλησία" literally means, "called out". As Acts 2:24 has it, "Praising God, and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as were being saved"

 

[asterisktom]

No, those will be future literal events. Preterism is poppycock.

You do know that there are other isms besides Dispensationalism and Preterism? Iconoclast, as far as I know, would not call himself Preterist. I am the only one in this thread, I think, who is Preterist.

 

[Yeshua1]

You do know that there are other isms besides Dispensationalism and Preterism? Iconoclast, as far as I know, would not call himself Preterist. I am the only one in this thread, I think, who is Preterist.

yes, as I am a Covenant premil!

 

[Yeshua1]

yes, the Bible way, that after a sinner becomes a believer, they joint the Church of Jesus Christ, where "ἐκκλησία" literally means, "called out". As Acts 2:24 has it, "Praising God, and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as were being saved"

God chose them first to be added into the Church!

 

[SavedByGrace]

God chose them first to be added into the Church!

you ever wonder why God chose YOU, and not say a thousand in your town? WHAT is the NT basis for this "election to salvation"? Are you more "worthy" than your friend who may never get saved? This whole teaching is so "elitest", which is what makes it so very much unBiblical. God chose the base things of this world, Paul tells us in 1 Cor. 1:28.

 

[Yeshua1]

you ever wonder why God chose YOU, and not say a thousand in your town? WHAT is the NT basis for this "election to salvation"? Are you more "worthy" than your friend who may never get saved? This whole teaching is so "elitest", which is what makes it so very much unBiblical. God chose the base things of this world, Paul tells us in 1 Cor. 1:28.

A Calvinist is humble and in awe of the grace of God, as he choose me period, nothing could do to merit that!

 

[SavedByGrace]

A Calvinist is humble and in awe of the grace of God, as he choose me period, nothing could do to merit that!

sure, but WHY choose you, or me? WHY? There is zero NT evidence that answers this. In the OT, God tells us the WHY.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

The "thousand years" starts with the binding of Satan. A spiritual event that cannot be witnessed with one's natural eyes.

The Gospel cannot go forth unless the "strong man" is first bound.

Matthew 12:28-29.

Luke 10:17-20
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You will say this hasn't happened because the binding doesn't look like your carnal notions thereof. You think that men are little angels and will live pure, peaceful and perfect little lives if the devil cannot deceive the nations. You don't think they're already corrupt, deceivers of themselves, or driven by their lusts to idolize their bellies.

But, the fact that the Gospel goes forth is the signatory evidence of such binding. How can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

So the binding of Satan has occurred. I'm just taking Christ's words here, and I see it in the fact that the church is being built in the earth.

As the event that John said ushers in the "thousand years" has occurred, then the "thousand years" has been ushered in.

The gospel was going forth throughout the lifetimes of Paul, Peter, and the other apostles, yet the apostles are the ones who taught frequently of the devil's evil activities in blinding all unbelievers and attacking all believers (Acts 26:18; Eph. 2; Eph 6; 1 Peter 5; etc). The apostle John wrote long after your supposed binding of Satan already had taken place that the whole world lies in the evil one and that the devil was attacking believers in churches at the end of the first century, and was going to put some believers in churches into prison.

Your notions about Satan being bound in the manner that Revelation 20 speaks about are false.