Willful Sin Kills You

[steaver]

Apparently you haven't read enough of my postings. I've always said he was the offering for all sins (willful and ignorant). But according to heb 10, if you sin willfully after arriving at the truth, there is no more sacrifice for these sins and a looking forward to judgment.

You totally miss the message of Hebrews 10.

"If you sin willfully". What sin? The 10 commandments? The 600+ Torah laws?

Hebrews 10 explains the sin he is speaking of from beginning to end.

Hebrews is all about Jesus Christ, His sacrifice for all sin and the covenant made with those who believe.

It is not about keeping the Law or any part of the Law. It is about Jesus satisfying the Law and those who believe that Jesus Christ has satisfied the Law. It appears that this very passage which you point to is actually pointing back at you and those who reject the fact that Jesus Christ has satisfied the Law. These people still feel obligated to have the Law vindicate themselves rather than faith in the work of Jesus Christ. Like yourself, who has said that those who do not keep the Sabbath will be cut off from life. This very statement in part troddens under foot the Son of God and His blood covenant.

Hebrews explains the "willful sin" it is speaking of, it is crystal clear it is Jesus Christ and not any Laws...

"Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?"

It is not about the Sabbath, or stealing, or lying, or any other Law. It is about REJECTING the Son of God as the sacrifice for ALL sins and the fulfillment of the demands of the Law.

Hebrews makes it clear that those who have been sanctified by Jesus Christ (saved) have been perfect for ever. For ever is eternal my friend. Believe the Word as it is written, not as others have told you to believe it.

"For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified." (10:14)

Right there is your OSAS! Just to mention one out of many.

 

[Jason1]

You totally miss the message of Hebrews 10.

"If you sin willfully". What sin? The 10 commandments? The 600+ Torah laws?

Hebrews 10 explains the sin he is speaking of from beginning to end.

Hebrews is all about Jesus Christ, His sacrifice for all sin and the covenant made with those who believe.

It is not about keeping the Law or any part of the Law. It is about Jesus satisfying the Law and those who believe that Jesus Christ has satisfied the Law. It appears that this very passage which you point to is actually pointing back at you and those who reject the fact that Jesus Christ has satisfied the Law. These people still feel obligated to have the Law vindicate themselves rather than faith in the work of Jesus Christ. Like yourself, who has said that those who do not keep the Sabbath will be cut off from life. This very statement in part troddens under foot the Son of God and His blood covenant.

Hebrews explains the "willful sin" it is speaking of, it is crystal clear it is Jesus Christ and not any Laws...

"Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?"

It is not about the Sabbath, or stealing, or lying, or any other Law. It is about REJECTING the Son of God as the sacrifice for ALL sins and the fulfillment of the demands of the Law.

Hebrews makes it clear that those who have been sanctified by Jesus Christ (saved) have been perfect for ever. For ever is eternal my friend. Believe the Word as it is written, not as others have told you to believe it.

"For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified." (10:14)

Right there is your OSAS! Just to mention one out of many.

No, this is not the correct interpretation. This is specifically referring back to Num 15 (and also Lev 1-6). There were no sacrifices for willful sin, only ignorant sin. Yeshua became the sacrifice for ALL sin. So if we sin "willfully" after coming to this truth, then there is no more sacrifice for sin, only looking forward to judgment.

Willful disobedience is rejecting Yeshua because what is his name?:

Rev 19:13 and having been dressed in a robe dipped in blood – and His Name is called: The Word of YHVH.
​

The word of YHVH is the torah - commandments, ordinances, statutes, witnesses, etc. Here is confirmation:

1Jn 2:3 And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands.
1Jn 2:4 The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 2:5 But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Elohim has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.
1Jn 2:6 The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked.​

Don't make yourself a liar and disobey any words of the Father. They are the path of life, the standard of righteousness, and what Yeshua embodies.

 

[steaver]

No, this is not the correct interpretation.

It's not an interpretation, it's an application of exactly what is written, there is no "interpreting" needed. The writer is perfectly clear that he is speaking of rejecting belief in the Son of God. Your group is adding their own spin on it.

Did you miss this part?
""For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified." (10:14)
Do you understand what for ever means?

 

[Jason1]

It's not an interpretation, it's an application of exactly what is written, there is no "interpreting" needed. The writer is perfectly clear that he is speaking of rejecting belief in the Son of God. Your group is adding their own spin on it.

Did you miss this part?
""For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified." (10:14)
Do you understand what for ever means?

Sanctified = set-apart = obedient

1Jn 3:4 Everyone doing sin also does lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.
1Jn 3:5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin.
1Jn 3:6 Everyone staying in Him does not sin. Everyone sinning has neither seen Him nor known Him.
​

Believing in the Son = Believing in the Father = obeying the Father's words

Joh_14:15 “If you love Me, you shall guard My commands.
Exo 20:6 but showing kindness to thousands, to those who love Me and guard My commands.
Deu 6:5 “And you shall love יהוה your Elohim with all your heart, and with all your being, and with all your might.
Deu 6:6 “And these Words which I am commanding you today shall be in your heart,
​

If you reject torah (the word), you reject Messiah, and you reject the Father. Repentance back to torah is required.

 

[steaver]

Sanctified = set-apart = obedient

1Jn 3:4 Everyone doing sin also does lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.
1Jn 3:5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin.
1Jn 3:6 Everyone staying in Him does not sin. Everyone sinning has neither seen Him nor known Him.
​

Believing in the Son = Believing in the Father = obeying the Father's words

Joh_14:15 “If you love Me, you shall guard My commands.
Exo 20:6 but showing kindness to thousands, to those who love Me and guard My commands.
Deu 6:5 “And you shall love יהוה your Elohim with all your heart, and with all your being, and with all your might.
Deu 6:6 “And these Words which I am commanding you today shall be in your heart,
​

If you reject torah (the word), you reject Messiah, and you reject the Father. Repentance back to torah is required.

You are all over the place, this is why it doesn't make any sense to you. The writer of Hebrews is perfectly clear that he is speaking of rejecting the sacrifice in the Son of God. You are actually willfully disobeying God by rejecting that Jesus Christ is the end of the consequences of the Law for those who trust in Him.

"Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?" (Gal 4:21)

Answer Paul's question Jason. You do desire to be under the Law, correct? As well as ye desire all people to be under the Law, correct?

 

[MennoSota]

@ Jason1 is a dead man walking and he doesn't even know it. It's so terribly sad.

 

[Jason1]

You are all over the place, this is why it doesn't make any sense to you. The writer of Hebrews is perfectly clear that he is speaking of rejecting the sacrifice in the Son of God. You are actually willfully disobeying God by rejecting that Jesus Christ is the end of the consequences of the Law for those who trust in Him.

"Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?" (Gal 4:21)

Answer Paul's question Jason. You do desire to be under the Law, correct? As well as ye desire all people to be under the Law, correct?

That galations verse is talking about those wishing to be under oral law. Paul is like "Hello" do you not know what written law says? Doing it in the flesh (oral law) is bondage and not of the promise.

Jesus is not the end of the consequences, that is foolish. If you sin willfully you still die. You can not go be a drunken murderer who steals his neighbors wife and car and desecrates the sabbath in it while profaning His name and bowing down to idols. Guess what, there is always a consequence to those actions.

What Jesus did was pay the penalty so you can be brought back into covenant with the Father. There is no more sacrifice after this to do what he did so you must walk accordingly.

Don't let birds of the air steal the good seed - the word (aka torah). Mariconsota is one such bird.

 

[MennoSota]

That galations verse is talking about those wishing to be under oral law. Paul is like "Hello" do you not know what written law says? Doing it in the flesh (oral law) is bondage and not of the promise.

Jesus is not the end of the consequences, that is foolish. If you sin willfully you still die. You can not go be a drunken murderer who steals his neighbors wife and car and desecrates the sabbath in it while profaning His name and bowing down to idols. Guess what, there is always a consequence to those actions.

What Jesus did was pay the penalty so you can be brought back into covenant with the Father. There is no more sacrifice after this to do what he did so you must walk accordingly.

Don't let birds of the air steal the good seed - the word (aka torah). Mariconsota is one such bird.

Galatians is about you and your false teaching, Jason. You are the Judaiser on this forum. You have no part in the Kingdom of God and are a dead man walking.

 

[steaver]

That galations verse is talking about those wishing to be under oral law. Paul is like "Hello" do you not know what written law says? Doing it in the flesh (oral law) is bondage and not of the promise.

"Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace."

You still did not answer...

"Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?" (Gal 4:21)

Answer Paul's question Jason. You do desire to be under the Law, correct? As well as ye desire all people to be under the Law, correct?

 

[Jason1]

"Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace."

You still did not answer...

"Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?" (Gal 4:21)

Answer Paul's question Jason. You do desire to be under the Law, correct? As well as ye desire all people to be under the Law, correct?

I did explain that. I do not wish to be under oral law, but under YHVH's Kingship.

Luk 4:4 But Yeshua answered him, saying, “It has been written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of Elohim.

 

[Jason1]

Galatians is about you and your false teaching, Jason. You are the Judaiser on this forum. You have no part in the Kingdom of God and are a dead man walking.

1. You have no idea what a judaiser is.
2. You have made yourself a judge (with no law to judge by)
3. Galations is about oral law, not written
4. You are a bird of the air trying to steal the good seed.

 

[steaver]

I did explain that. I do not wish to be under oral law, but under YHVH's Kingship.

Luk 4:4 But Yeshua answered him, saying, “It has been written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of Elohim.

You will have to explain your "oral law" defense. Please do so with scripture. I have never seen the phrase "oral law" in my reading of scripture.

 

[MennoSota]

1. You have no idea what a judaiser is.
2. You have made yourself a judge (with no law to judge by)
3. Galations is about oral law, not written
4. You are a bird of the air trying to steal the good seed.

Sure I do. It's you.
You make up what Galatians is about in order to justify your Judaiser behavior.
You are a dead man walking, Jason. You have never known God's grace. It's sad.

 

[Jason1]

You will have to explain your "oral law" defense. Please do so with scripture. I have never seen the phrase "oral law" in my reading of scripture.

If you want an in depth teaching that will blow your socks of on galations I can link you. It will help explain the difference between phraisaic oral law (now rabbinical law) and written law. It also shows what the conflict in the first century was and how the messiah and Paul come against it. If you want some quick verses here are a few. Oral law and traditions of men are the same:

Col 2:8 See to it that no one makes a prey of you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary matters of the world, and not according to Messiah.
Col 2:20 If, then, you died with Messiah from the elementary matters of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations:
Col 2:21 “Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle” –
Col 2:22 which are all to perish with use – according to the commands and teachings of men?​

These reference to:

Gal 4:3 So we also, when we were children, were under the elementary matters of the world, being enslaved.
Gal 4:9 But now after you have known Elohim, or rather are known by Elohim, how do you turn again to the weak and poor elementary matters, to which you wish to be enslaved again?
​

And the Messiah said:

Mar 7:13 nullifying the Word of Elohim through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such traditions you do.”

Mat_15:9 ‘But in vain do they worship Me, teaching as teachings the commands of men.’​

 

[Jason1]

Sure I do. It's you.
You make up what Galatians is about in order to justify your Judaiser behavior.
You are a dead man walking, Jason. You have never known God's grace. It's sad.

1. You pervert the Word
2. You don't desire knowledge and attack instead in your ignorance
3. You judge according to your blindness
4. You don't know what grace is
5. You need to repent and turn back to Him

 

[steaver]

These reference to:

Gal 4:3 So we also, when we were children, were under the elementary matters of the world, being enslaved.
Gal 4:9 But now after you have known Elohim, or rather are known by Elohim, how do you turn again to the weak and poor elementary matters, to which you wish to be enslaved again?

I appreciate the try, but the Scripture always distinguishes between the law and traditions of men, you should know this.

You claim Galatians is not speaking of the written law, let's take a look.

"But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons". (Gal 4:4-5)

"For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." (Gal 5:14)

So you are telling me Paul is speaking of oral traditions? That Jesus Christ redeemed them who were under oral traditions? That "thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself" is an oral tradition?

 

[steaver]

Gal 4:3 So we also, when we were children, were under the elementary matters of the world, being enslaved.
Gal 4:9 But now after you have known Elohim, or rather are known by Elohim, how do you turn again to the weak and poor elementary matters, to which you wish to be enslaved again?

Where else do we find these weak and poor elementary matters?

For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God." (Heb 7:18-19)

 

[MennoSota]

1. You pervert the Word
2. You don't desire knowledge and attack instead in your ignorance
3. You judge according to your blindness
4. You don't know what grace is
5. You need to repent and turn back to Him

1. Not at all, but you deny YHWH by denying the Triune God.
2. The Spirit of God gives discernment to know you teach falsely.
3. You are a dead man walking. You can neither see nor rightly divide the word of God.
4. Grace is God choosing to adopt us as His children despite our rebellious heart. Grace is God choosing to atone for my sins and pardon me because Yeshua has paid my debt.
5. I am a child of the Great I Am. Adopted by YHWH to spend eternity in His Kingdom. He has made me righteous via Yeshua's blood sacrifice. You, Jason, have no part in the family because you deny my Father who is Triune. Fall down before my Father and confess your guilt. Perhaps he will be gracious to you and one day I can call you my brother. Until you are made alive in Christ, you are a dead man walking. That's sad.

 

[Jason1]

1. Not at all, but you deny YHWH by denying the Triune God.
2. The Spirit of God gives discernment to know you teach falsely.
3. You are a dead man walking. You can neither see nor rightly divide the word of God.
4. Grace is God choosing to adopt us as His children despite our rebellious heart. Grace is God choosing to atone for my sins and pardon me because Yeshua has paid my debt.
5. I am a child of the Great I Am. Adopted by YHWH to spend eternity in His Kingdom. He has made me righteous via Yeshua's blood sacrifice. You, Jason, have no part in the family because you deny my Father who is Triune. Fall down before my Father and confess your guilt. Perhaps he will be gracious to you and one day I can call you my brother. Until you are made alive in Christ, you are a dead man walking. That's sad.

1. No
2. LOL - You should try using the Word to discern also.
3. So says Marcion who throws out most of scripture except Paul
4. Grace is also giving us His instructions to walk out for our good. Judgment comes if not.
5. Man-mad doctrines can condemn me? Ouch.

 

[MennoSota]

1. No
2. LOL - You should try using the Word to discern also.
3. So says Marcion who throws out most of scripture except Paul
4. Grace is also giving us His instructions to walk out for our good. Judgment comes if not.
5. Man-mad doctrines can condemn me? Ouch.

Your response is what I expect from a Judaiser.
Jason, I have nothing but pity for you. You just don't know what you don't know. Being blind, you think you see. Being deaf, you think you hear. Being dead, you think you are alive. You don't comprehend how you dangle over the flames of hell by a thread and only the Triune God can save you.