Originally posted by DesiderioDomini:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> 1ST,In the available Antiochian manuscripts ,Erasmus published five editions of the New Testament The first in 1516 was followed by another in 1519 which was used by Martin Luther for his historic and earth-shaking German translation. His third, fourth, and fifth followed in 1522, 1527 and 1535. Erasmus ' work was magnificent and set the standard for centuries to come.
Robert Stephanus published four editions, dating from 1546 through 1549, 1550 and lastly 1551.
Theodore Beza published several editions of the Greek New Testament. Four were published in 1565, 1582, 1588 and 1598. These were printed in folio, meaning a sheet of paper was folded over once, thus producing four separate pages of the book. He also published five octavo editions, these dates being; 1565,1567,1580,1590 and 1604. "Octavo" means that one printed sheet folded in such a way as to produce eight separate pages of the text. Books printed in this manner tended to have a smaller page size than folio works, but sometimes led to the need of a work being printed in two or more volumes. It is Beza's edition of 1598 and Stephanus's edition of 1550 and 1551 which were used as the primary sources by the King James translators.
, THAT WERE TRANSLATED by William Tyndale, that became the KJB
So basically, the inspired word of God did not exist in one volume before the KJV? How did those people get along if they didnt have God's word?
2ND), It's up to YOU to find the Book that God was talking about in Psalm 12:6,7 and Jesus was talking about in Matthew 24:35
Exactly! So, please tell me, what is it that makes the KJV right, and the NASB wrong? Is it simply your personal conviction, or is there proof?
3rd)there are no typos in God's Holy Word, AV 1611
There are no typos? Are you serious? It has been edited several times to remove all the typos! Do you really not know that there is a difference between the KJV 1611 and the KJV 1769? Did you not know that there are hundreds of mispellings, even if you are to claim perfection of the KJV.
4th)God's Word does not contain errors, God is not the Author of confusion, the translation is inerrant
Which translation? Tyndale? Geneva? NLT? Why the KJV?
There have been several editions but no revisions;
Tell me this, what changeds were made from the first edition to the 2nd. Would you name 3 examples (specific examples).
"ANY hippie can burn down a building, but I've NEVER seen even one building that a hippie built".
not real sure what this has to do with anything, but thanks!
5th)There were more Editions after the AV 1611 and all of it was inspired.
Ok, hold up: You just said that God is not the author of confusion, so how can God inspire 2 different translations of the same passage which disagree? How can God inspire "He" in Ruth 3:15, and "SHE" in Ruth 3:15?
Perhaps you should read this: Revision is no myth
Tell me, if these arent revisions, what changes must be made in order to qualify for a revision?
Proverbs 26:4-5 states: Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit
Great! What does this have to do with the topic at hand?
First, in the days in which our Bible was translated, the Apocrypha was accepted reading based on its historical value, though not accepted as Scripture by anyone outside of' the Catholic church. The King James translators therefore placed it between the Old and New Testaments for its historical benefit to its readers.
So, why did they take it out, if it was only for historical value? What was YOUR KJV revised, and many entire books removed from what God "inspired"? Why change it if its not broken?
They did not integrate it into the Old Testament text as do the corrupt Alexandrian manuscripts.
Why are the alexandrian manuscripts corrupt? Is this your opinion, or is there some fact here?
That they rejected the Apocrypha as divine is very obvious by the seven reasons which they gave for not incorporating it into the text. They are as follows:
1. Not one of them is in the Hebrew language, which was alone used by the inspired historians and poets of the Old Testament.
2. Not one of the writers lays any claim to inspiration.
3. These books were never acknowledged as sacred Scriptures by the Jewish Church, and therefore were never sanctioned by our Lord.
4. They were not allowed a place among the sacred books, during the first four centuries of the Christian Church.
5. They contain fabulous statements, and statements which contradict not only the canonical Scriptures, but themselves; as when, in the two Books of Maccabees, Antiochus Epiphanes is made to die three different deaths in as many different places.
6. It inculcates doctrines at variance with the Bible, such as prayers for the dead and sinless perfection.
7. It teaches immoral practices, such as lying, suicide, assassination and magical incantation.
Great, so if they had this strong conviction that these books were not scripture, they chose something very interesting:
RATHER than discuss the issue of their conviction that the Apocryphal books were not scripture in their preface, they decided INSTEAD to discuss their conviction that KJVO was INCORRECT.
I ask again, have you read the preface written by the KJV translators?
If having the Apocrypha between the Testaments disqualifies it as authoritative, then the corrupt Vaticanus and Sinaiticus manuscripts from Alexandria, Egypt must be totally worthless since their authors obviously didn't have the conviction of the King James translators and incorporated its books into the text of the Old Testament thus giving it authority with Scripture.
As most other KJVO, you miss the forest for all the trees. No one claims PERFECTION on the part of those 2 manuscripts. YOU claim PERFECTION for the KJV. THE KJV CANNOT MAKE THE SAME MISTAKES OTHER MANUSCRIPTS MAKE!!!!! You cant say "well, you did it too!" God cannot be holy if he sins and then says to us "well, you sin too"
6th)Imagine the confusion which would arise if the translators had not used the italicized words:
"Salvation unto the LORD: thy blessing is upon thy people. Selah."
This is Psalm 3:8 with one italicized word omitted. As you can see, the reading implies that the Lord needs to be saved! The correct reading is:
"Salvation belongeth unto the LORD: thy blessing is upon thy people. Selah."
So, are you claiming that God left something out of his originally inspired word?
7th) God only wrote ONE BOOK
Which language did he "write" it in? Do you have any evidence that he was involved in the translation of the KJV and not any others?
8th)The more Erasmus became involved in the study and editing of the New Testament, the more his theology and convictions began to change. He came to reject the typical Roman Catholic interpretation of Matt. 16:18 establishing papal primacy. He began to vehemently attack the abuses and scandals of the Roman Catholic clergy, particularly as they violated their vows of celibacy. He even attacked celibacy as fallacious (171).
How does this even REMOTELY address my question #8? Is this reading in Revelation 17:8 a typo or not? Can you find one single manuscript on the planet, or one quote from a church father which reads as the TR/KJV does?
My questions to you are: #1 Are you 100% sure if you died right now, Are you are saved and on your way to heaven?
yep! and whats funny, I have never before, nor will I ever use the KJV for personal study or to preach out of.
#2 which edition KJB do You use?
I dont use any of them. The only one even in my possession is a keepsake bible given to me when I was little, which I have never used.
Which MV Version do you accept as "GOS'D WORD" 100% sure in your heat of hearts:
not contains, partly has or maybe is? The Infallible, Inerrant "WORD OF GOD"
Several, actually. NASB, NIV, NLT, ESV are the ones I use the most, in that order.
#3 What does your pastor preach out of?#
NASB. I have just recently joined a new church (since I moved) and God blessed me by calling me to a church that encourages the priesthood of the believer, unlike many IFB. My pastor uses the NASB to preach with, and I use it as my main bible in English.
4 Why do we need so many versions when thre is only ONE GOD?
1. Because God decided for it to be that way. 2. Many people simply cannot read 17th century english and understand it. WHy not give them a bible in their language? When a 5th grader today reads "fetched a compass", I would have to tell him what that means. 3. Why are there so many different KJVs if there is one God?
#5 Why does the RCC think they are the Final Authority and not The AV 1611?
I dont know, and cant care less what the RCC thinks.
I ask you again, WHY DO YOU think the KJV 1611 is the Final Authority? What evidence do you have for it?
So far, you have all the appearances of someone who has been indotrinated with KJVO, and has never used his own brain to figure anything out. I asked you several questions that you simply avoided.
Is this what I should understand of your position? That you are so convinced of it that you are incapable of answering simple questions?
I hope you do better this time around. </font>[/QUOTE]Very well, In Philippians 2:6, The KJV again, clearly declares the deity of Jesus Christ: "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery TO BE EQUAL WITH GOD" The new translations completely re-word the verse to deny the deity of Jesus Christ. The NIV, RSV, NASV, NRSV, NKJV [1979 ed.,] etc. reads, "Who, being in very nature God, DID NOT CONSIDER EQUALITY WITH GOD something to be grasped."
Someone is attacking the most important doctrine in the Bible - the deity of Jesus Christ!
They attack the virgin birth:
In Luke 2:33, The King James reads, "And JOSEPH and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him." The NIV, NASV, NRSV, etc. reads, "The CHILD's FATHER and mother marveled at what was said about him." The "CHILD's FATHER?" Do you believe that Joseph was Jesus's father? Not if you believe the virgin birth! Not if you believe John 3:16, that Jesus Christ was the Son of God...A subtle attack at the virgin birth.
Consider Colossians 1:14: the KJV reads, "In whom we have redemption THROUGH HIS BLOOD, even the forgiveness of sins:" The NIV reads, "In whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins." The NIV, NASV, RSV, NRSV and co. rip the precious words "THROUGH HIS BLOOD" out. Friend, salvation is only "THROUGH HIS BLOOD." That old song says, "What can wash away my sins, NOTHING BUT THE BLOOD OF JESUS."
Think these are just isolated cases? NOT BY A LONG SHOT! There are over 6,000 changes.
They attack John 3:16:
And something has to be done with John 3:16...so the NIV and company read, "For God so loved the world that he gave his ONE AND ONLY SON, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" - removing the critical word "BEGOTTEN." If Jesus was "the one and only" then what happens to the wonderful promise to believers like 1 John 3:2, "Beloved, now are we the sons of God...?" AN OBVIOUS CONTRADICTION APPEARS!
They tell lies:
A blatant error is found in the NIV, NASV, NRSV, et al. in Mark 1:2,3: "It is written in Isaiah the prophet: I will send my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your way - a voice of one calling in the desert, Prepare the way for the Lord, make straight paths for him." It is NOT written in Isaiah. "I will send my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your way" - is found in Malachi 3:1. The King James correctly reads: "As it is written in the PROPHETS..."
A better translation...Easier to understand...BY A LIE
Psalms 119:160 says, "Thy word is TRUE..." John 17:17 says, "...thy word is TRUTH." Titus 1:2 clearly says, "God, that CANNOT LIE."
How could the God of Titus 1:2 be the God of Mark 1:2,3 in these new versions? Either the translators of the other versions can't read or have never read Isaiah nor Malachi [which is likely] or somebody is deliberately tampering with God's Word to DISCREDIT IT.
Who would do such a thing?
I'll give you a hint - he's called the "A LIAR, and the father of it" in John 8:44.
Oh, by the way, did you think David killed Goliath? Not according to the others. In 2 Samuel 21:19, they erroneously read, "...Elhanan son of JaareOregim the Bethlehemite killed Goliath the Gittite, who had a spear with a shaft like a weaver's rod."
They make Lucifer and Jesus Christ the same:
In Isaiah 14:12, the father of the new versions removes his mask. The King James reads, "How art thou fallen from heaven, O LUCIFER, son of the morning!..." The NIV, NASV, NRSV etc. reads, "How you have fallen from heaven, O MORNING STAR, son of the dawn..." The new versions change "Lucifer" to "morning star." According to Revelation 22:16, the "morning star" is the Lord Jesus Christ. What blasphemy! And there's no basis whatsoever for the change, as the Hebrew word for star [kokab] is not even found in Isaiah 14:12. Is there any doubt who is the father of these new versions?
They take out hell:
If Satan is the author of these new versions, one subject he will aim his attack is the place the Bible calls hell. And the new versions go to extents to remove it.
Many times they change "hell" to "grave" or "death," but the word "hell" is far and few in the new versions. Like Psalm 9:17: in the King James reads, "The wicked shall be turned into HELL..." The NIV, reads, "The wicked return to the GRAVE..." We ALL "return to the GRAVE."
Many times when the new versions come to the obvious word "hell" - they replace it with the Greek word "Hades" or Hebrew "sheol." [See Matt. 16:18, Luke 16:23, Acts 2:31 and many, many more, the NEW King James does this 29 times.] Rather than translate into the obvious word hell - THEY REFUSE TO TRANSLATE IT.
And this is a better translation? And these new versions are "easier to read" and "understand?" Who in their right mind thinks Hades or Sheol is "easier to understand" than hell? Why didn't they leave in the Greek word "Ouranos" for heaven? It's obvious! Because someone is trying to remove and cast doubt on the place called hell.
In Isaiah 14:15, the King James Bible condemns Lucifer to hell: "Yet thou shalt be brought down to HELL ..." The new versions refuse to send Lucifer to hell! The NIV reads, "But you are brought down to the GRAVE..." The NASV, NRSV, NEW King James [NKJV] places him in "Sheol."
hmm... I wonder which one the Devil prefers?
The Lord's or The Devil's Prayer?
An alarming display of Satan is found in Luke 11. The "The Lord's Prayer" is subtly [see 2 Cor. 11:3] transformed into "The Devil's Prayer."
The King James Bible in Luke 11:2-4, reads, "...Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth. Give us day by day our daily bread. And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil." Incredibly, the NIV, NASV, NRSV, etc. take out: "WHICH ART IN HEAVEN... Thy will be done, AS IN HEAVEN, so in earth... but DELIVER US FROM EVIL." Heaven is completely removed! The "father" of the new versions is NOT IN HEAVEN and DOES NOT DELIVER FROM EVIL.
I wonder who it could be? [hint: see John 8:44]
Are you getting the picture? Do you see how subtle [see Genesis 3:1,] seemingly harmless the changes are - AND YET HOW DEADLY THEY ARE TO THE INTEGRITY OF GOD's WORD.
They attack the Lord Jesus Christ
They attack the plan of salvation
They glorify Lucifer
And they deny hell
Yes friend. Satan has launched an attack on your Bible.
YOU'D BETTER BELIEVE IT
Did you know, the King James Bible is the only English Bible in the world that has a command to "study" your Bible? That's right - 2 Timothy 2:15, "STUDY to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth" - has been changed in every English Bible on the face of this earth! BUT ONE.
They take out whole verses:
In Acts 8:37, the King James reads, "And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ
They take out whole verses:
In Acts 8:37, the King James reads, "And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." The other versions read - woops, they took the whole verse out! One of the best verses in the Bible on salvation through Jesus Christ and they ripped it out...why?
Why is it that every time a sinner is saved by grace in the book of Acts - THEY ATTACK IT? In Acts 9:5,6: Paul is getting saved, and they take out 20 words. In Acts 16:31 when the Philippian jailor is getting saved, the word "CHRIST" is delicately removed. Why do these new bibles so fiercely attack God's wonderful plan of salvation?
Who would do such a thing?
Would you "inject" it into your child, loved one, or congregation? And would you "inject" them with a Bible that is "defiled" because it has some "good?" It could be far more costly than their physical life - THEIR ETERNAL SOUL! Galatians 5:9 says, "A LITTLE leaven leaveneth THE WHOLE lump."
One of the lies used to promote these MV's is "they're easier to read and understand." But according to a Flesch-Kincaid Grade Level research study, The King James Bible is by far the easiest! Out of 26 different categories - the King James graded easier in a whopping 23!
Dr. Frank Logsdon was co-founder of The New American Standard Version. As people begin confronting Dr. Logsdon on some the NASV's serious omissions and errors. He re-examined the evidence and this was his verdict:
"I must under God denounce every attachment to the New American Standard Version. I'm afraid I'm in trouble with the Lord...I wrote the format...I wrote the preface...I'm in trouble;...its wrong, terribly wrong; its frighteningly wrong ...The deletions are absolutely frightening...there are so many...Are we so naive that we do not suspect Satanic deception in all of this?"
New American Standard Version
Let the lying lips be put to silence. Psalm 31:18
Also silenced was Philip Schaff, collaborator on the New Greek Committee and director of the American Standard Version, which formed the foundation of the New American Standard and The Living Bible. Paralleling Taylor's pathology, Schaff's son finds the same "frog" in Philip Schaff's throat. Even as early as 1854, the warning was given, "his voice so affected that he could not speak in public so as to be heard." Finally by 1892...
the power of articulated speech gone.
[David S. Schaff, The Life of Phillip Schaff (New York: Charles Scribner's Sons, 1897,) pp.171, 446]
Westcott and Hort Greek Text:
[RV, NRSV, NIV, NASB, CEV, New Century Version, Good News for Modern Man, Jehovah Witness bible, The Book, The Everyday Bible, All Catholic bibles et al.]
Westcott's biographer cites that in 1858 "he was quite inaudible" [Life of Westcott, Vol. I, p. 198] and by 1870 "His voice reached few and was understood by still fewer." [Ibid., p.272]
Galatians 6:1 in the NIV vs. the KJV by Lance Schmidt
The NIV has a very weak rendering as they use dynamic equivalency of thought [man's opinion of the meaning] rather than take the precise approach of translating from the original language to the new language of English using literal precision accuracy as did the KJV translators. The KJV renders the Greek text word for word [Textus Receptus] even retaining the right word order to communicate and preserve faithfully God's full-intended meaning.
NIV
Brothers, If someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted. Galatians 6:1
KJV
Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted. Galatians 6:1
The problems are subtle but serious...
Why do we need any more proof? God open their eyes; you are searching and wandering around but when you are converted you will see you were wrong just like TCassidy and all of the MV's who are grasping at straws. Give it up! There is no MEAT of the Word on your plate.
