William Cohen calls for gays in military.

Well speaking as a former Marine 1985-1989 Paris Island - Boot Camp, Lackland Airforce Base- Military Police School, and MCAS Eltoro-Fleet Marine Duty Station Side, I am quite aware of the nuances of homosexuals in the service. But since you cannot actually back up your statement that a homosexual advance is life threatening to the point that it would become necessary to protect ones own life, it is clear that you have obfuscated this isssue yourself by a complete exageration of the threat. I do not know who it is that you know but everyone needs to take a reality break from their fears.

 

==That certainly happens (in and out of the military). In fact that reality is a good reason for homosexuals in the military to keep their lifestyle to themselves. However trying to say that such aggression towards anyone is in line with Biblical teaching is wrong. What you seem to be promoting is dangerous. Both socially and spiritually.

Sure people have a right to defend themselves against any form of physical violence. However killing someone is rarely needed in self defense. Maybe in some cases, but certainly not the kind of situation you are talking about. "Unwarrented advances" simple do not justify such a response. If a person recieves unwelcomed attention from another person, gay or straight, there are civilized ways to deal with that (walk away, etc). If a straight person is physically attacked by a homosexual then they should do what they must to defend themselves. However I don't see how that would involve killing anyone. Anyway I am not aware of there being a major problem with homosexuals physically attacking people.

==I don't know if they have the offical "legal" right to do that or not. However I think sexuality should be off limits at the work place anyway. Maybe that is just me.

==Unwarranted advances, from anyone, should be handled in a mature civilized fashion. The person who has been offended is to walk away and, if needed, report the event to the correct authorities. There is zero justification for violence as a response to "unwarranted advances". Besides "unwarranted advances" can occur any place, at anytime, to anyone.

"Never pay back evil for evil to anyone...never take your own revenge...do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good" -Romans 12:17,19,21

 

It does not.

 

==No. Your position, as I have shown, promotes theological inconsistency and people taking their own revenge. Neither of those points are in agreement with God's Word.

 

Absolutely he does. But the resolution for that is not murder. Nor should we find the homosexual offender as having any culpability in his own murder such as diminishing the charge to manslaughter.

Some of the things that get said on these boards is incredible. And I have my doubts that half of what is said even on christian boards would ever come to light in a face to face conversation.

Again, just because I do not see a homosexual advance as life threatening doesnt mean I support it. And killing them is an incredibly immature as well as tragic notion. I do not like to use attacking words. But this topic is so incredibley rediculous.

 

Please for the love of a reasoned discussion. Please! Give me a descritpion of the life threatening advance of a homosexual. Are you suggsting that the gay guy will put a knife to his throat if he refuses, a gun, an ice pick? What? What is it that specifically threatens the life of a hetero?

 

==No, actually, I have quoted you directly. Everything I have responded to have been statements you have made.

==But the American people should expect soldiers to live with the stress of serving alongside of drunks and fornicators? That is your theological inconsistency. Right there.

For example: Do you think we should kick everyone out of the military who goes to bars/nightclubs? If not, how is a drunkard any different from a homosexual? I am looking for a Biblical answer not a social answer.

Keep in mind that the Bible is clear that homosexuals, drunkards, fornicators, liars, etc, will not inherit the Kingdom of God (1Cor 6:9-10, Gal 5:19-21, Rev 21:8).

==God's Word says nothing about the American military or American military policy. The Bible assumes that all people are sinners (Rom 6:23) and need to repent and turn to Christ. Thus the Biblical position is that the military is a secular/civil organization that is made up of many, many lost (depraved) people who need salvation (not social reform).



Is it "OK to make soldiers serve alongside homosexuals"? No. But it is also not ok to make them, Christian soldiers that is, serve alongside of fornicators, porn pushers, drunkards, and blasphemers either. Yet our country does and, to this point, I have not heard you condemn that.

 

==Biblical support?

 

Ok. Here you accuse a homosexuals of a hypothetical assult. Why? How is an advance by a homosexual related to an assault? Please describe the nature of this assault. Does he force himself on a hetero by means of physical force or are you describing the hetero being hit on by a homo as an assault?

In post #7 you say:

In post #9 you said:

And in post # 56 in response to filmproducers request for clarification as to whether you condone killing homosexuals who make advances on heterosexuals you say:

In post #74 you again frame the argument from a need of some kind of fear.

Again in post # 82 you frame your point in the context of some kind of fear for which is not ever been made clear.

After all this in post #89 you agree with hillclimber that if a soldier were to kill a homosexual for an advance made toward him the charge should be manslaughter because apparently you see it as someone else having some sort of culpability in the matter. In other words its not all his fault if he kills the gay guy and there is some amount of justifiablity(is that a word?) if he does. Lets let him off with a lighter sentence. It is not all his fault. The stress is more than a soldier should bear.

In post #96 you make it clear that you see an advance on a heterosexual by a homosexual as life threatening.

Here again in post #99 you frame the advance of a gay guy as life threatening.

In post # 108 you again frame this discussion in the context that such an advance is beyond any reasonable thinking as if killing the gay guy is at some level justifiable.

Then in post #111 you trip yourself up after having framed the discussion all this way as an advance by a homosexual as "Life Threatening" you say this:

Here are some facts about this thread as of this point.

1. No one has condoned homosexuality in this discussion.

2. You have accused others of supporting homesexuality because they did not agree wit your extreme resolution to the very real problem of homosexuality in the armed forces.

3.You have clearly made an excuse for murder of a homosexual if they make an advance on a heterosexual soldier.

4. You have assigned some level of culpability to other people not directly involved in the advance by the homosexual

5. In the end you contradicted yourself by saying a gay guy is to weak to be a threat after you clearly used the word threat or some variation thereof 11 times just in my rehash of your posts.

6. It is evident that you are blinded by an ungodly fear and I wish for you that wasnt so. 2Ti 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind

There is nothing sound about your fear and irrational resolution to a very real problem. And those who do not agee with killing homosexuals for advances on a straight person do not obfuscate the issue. I would say however you seem to have wobbled on your position a bit.

 

Not according to Rufus_1611, who informed us that the Nazis were homosexuals.

<shudder>
Why do we keep getting these mental images of homosexuals in the shower? This is getting a little disturbing. We get the picture - let's not have any more references to homosexuals in the shower, okay?

Regards, Wayne,
BiR

 

Since this is past the 10-page limit on this forum and the discussion has degenerated from the OP, it is closed.

Lady Eagle