Wine and Grapejuice

vermae,
i agree that's why most pastor's preach against alcohol. but should not they preach and train their people what their real sin is and how to avoid it (how to put God first in everything) instead of making laws to try to stop them from sinning. after all that's what the pharisees did.

 

Actually, there is nothing in the Bible that permits liquor, only wine. At least not that I know of.

Interestingly, the Arabs were the first ones to invent liquor (ca 800 AD, if memory serves), and they promptly banned it, under Islamic law.

 

No laws in Baptist church

I been in church for over 70 years and I don't know of any laws the church made.We do preach about sin and going to hell but laws are made by goverment not the church.Don't you remember when Christ came He did away with the law?He laid it on your heart to do what's right.

 

Matthew 5:17-19 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

 

I guess we are all doomed.The old testament is full of laws.If you break one you have broken them all.

 

Don't be silly... :laugh:

Galatians 3:24-25 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

 

...and there is nothing that condemns liquor, either. Wine was considered a "strong drink" for them, but if they had the capability to distill past the 14% alcohol limit, I'm sure they would have.

 

Actually, there is nothing in the Bible that permits liquor, only wine.

The Bible doesn't permit cars, air conditioners, or computers, either, for the very simple reason that they didn't exist at the time.

 

Don't be silly? You were the one who said we were under the law.I said when Jesus came we were no longer under the law.Silly Silly?You need to read your bible and know what you are talking about.You read a few books and now you are my task master,

 

You are cracking me up. :laugh:

I didn't say anything, I posted scripture. Therefore, your problem is not with me, it's with scripture. :laugh:

 

That was sort of my point. We are specifically told to drink wine in certain situations.

Liquor is not condemned.

So, apply the "no drunkenness" rule to it.

Mixed drinks, would probably be fine (opinion), but that's not what most liquor is used for.

 

Yes, I certainly do believe that Christ insists on the particular substances.

If you believe it can be anything, then what's wrong with making it pizza and beer???

Jesus instituted the Last Supper just as he wanted it to be done. I do not think we have any right whatsoever to change the substance of that which Christ himself initiated. That goes for washing feet as part of Communion as well.

greek geek, I have never heard of an OS Baptist who didn't use real wine. Of course, I guess that depends on if you're using the words "Old School" correctly. Old School Baptist properly refers to those of us more commonly known as Primitive Baptists today. As far as I know, every Primitive Baptist church, even the more progressive ones, use real wine and real unleavened bread.

The elements do matter because their very substance, as unleavened products, poured out and broken, represents and brings to our remembrance exactly what they do stand for.

If wine should not be used because it is a stumbling block, then Christ, or one of the Apostles, would have commanded that an alternative be used in lieu of wine for those in the congregation who had once be given to much wine.

I would have no part in any Communion service that didn't offer all three of the essentials for Communion: Unleavened bread, Wine, and Feet Washing.

 

There is certainly no doubt that Jesus used real alcoholic wine. That's what people drank back then. Why? Because the small amount of alcohol kept it free of bacteria! Every time a man took a drink of milk he risked getting brucellosis. Every time a man drank water from a clear stream he was silently hoping that there was not a flock anywhere upstream or a man bathing upstream. No wonder Paul told Timothy to take a little wine.

Now things are different. We have plenty of clean, pasteurized drinks we know are safe. There is no need to drink fermented wine.

My objection with the translation of "oinos" or "yayin" as grape juice (ie the nonfermented nonalcoholic stuff) is that it is dishonest exegesis - thrusting our twentieth century culture back into biblical times. We cannot "correct" what the Bible says just because we don't like it.

 

If the wine was good than for your health it's good now for your health.You are to do things in moderation.Timothydsaid alittle. If you drink too much water you drown if you drink too much wine you get drunk. the same friut makes grapejuice and wine tone is a sin and the other is not?In my town Winenos live a long time .:laugh:

 

Alchohol like money is not the root of evil, it is the LOVE of money or wine or anything you put before GOD in your heart that is the root of evil.

 

Oh boy--not another discussion about wine-- don't you think we have pretty much killed this horse?

The OP asks the question--"how do you know the difference?"--I say context--but everybody else has their own opinion-- and the issue is probably never going to be settled with us here on the BB or anywhere else. This discussion will probably end up "fruitless" just like all the other discussions on this topic.

Does the OP really want to know the "difference" or is the purpose to determine whether or not it is biblical for a Christian to drink wine? IMHO, I believe it's the latter.

 

People come and go from this forum. No one has to involve themselves in topics they don't like.

Does it make a difference?
The poster can post any question that he wants.