Wine or Grape Juice?

I agree. </font>[/QUOTE]I agree too!! Beating another dead horse. This topic is becoming very redundant--most have their minds made up--so why continue with it?

 

I agree. </font>[/QUOTE]I agree too!! Beating another dead horse. This topic is becoming very redundant--most have their minds made up--so why continue with it? </font>[/QUOTE]Most of the topics discussed in this forum have been discussed several or more times, and each time new people participate in the discussion. Those individuals who have nothing to contribute to this thread should probably stay out it and post in another thread where they have something to contribute.

 

Fortunately, very many answers can be found this side of the grave through careful, prayerful, and objective study. That "wine" in the New Testament refers to an alcoholic beverage is an incontrovertible fact.

Wine is NOT a bad thing. It is the misuse of it that is sinful.

</font>[/QUOTE]There are very many intelligent people (much smarter than I) that have studied this issue amongst many others for years and yet still disagree with one another.

I try to be open and do have the ability to change my mind with proof from the scriptures. But as of now, I still have not been convinced of what you believe.

Hey, we can still treat one another with the utmost of respect, correct?

 

Fortunately, very many answers can be found this side of the grave through careful, prayerful, and objective study. That "wine" in the New Testament refers to an alcoholic beverage is an incontrovertible fact.

Wine is NOT a bad thing. It is the misuse of it that is sinful.

</font>[/QUOTE]There are very many intelligent people (much smarter than I) that have studied this issue amongst many others for years and yet still disagree with one another.

I try to be open and do have the ability to change my mind with proof from the scriptures. But as of now, I still have not been convinced of what you believe.

Hey, we can still treat one another with the utmost of respect, correct? </font>[/QUOTE]One can be smart and also ignorant, stubborn, and narrow-minded at the same time.

If you and your smarter acquaintances don't believe the wine mentioned in the New Testament was alcoholic then how do you explain the following?:

Matthew 11:18-19 (KJV): For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil. The Son of man came eating and DRINKING, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a WINEBIBBER, a friend of publicans and sinners.

I Timothy 3:8 (KJV): Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to MUCH WINE, not greedy of filthy lucre; (all emphasis mine)

1) Jesus says that He Himself drank alcoholic wine.

2) Deacons are not to be heavy drinkers. If the wine was not alcoholic there would be no need for this limitation.

I will always respect you as a person. But I can't respect any opinion that is so clearly contrary to scripture.

 

The wine in the NT is indeed wine. However, I really don't think it matters whether we use wine or grape juice or purple kool-aid for communion. Just so the metaphors of "fruit of the vine" and reminding us of Christ's shed blood are served.

 

I believe real wine should be served in communion.This was the bible example.Also the early church served wine in the cup as well. But I will admit some folks cannot receive alcohol, for they do get an averse reaction. In the Lutheran and Catholic churches folks who get a alcohol reaction just receive the bread or the wafer.

 

Fortunately, very many answers can be found this side of the grave through careful, prayerful, and objective study. That "wine" in the New Testament refers to an alcoholic beverage is an incontrovertible fact.

Wine is NOT a bad thing. It is the misuse of it that is sinful.

</font>[/QUOTE]There are very many intelligent people (much smarter than I) that have studied this issue amongst many others for years and yet still disagree with one another.

I try to be open and do have the ability to change my mind with proof from the scriptures. But as of now, I still have not been convinced of what you believe.

Hey, we can still treat one another with the utmost of respect, correct? </font>[/QUOTE]I fully respect you as a brother in Christ and an Airman in the Air Force, but that "wine" in the New Testament was an alcoholic beverage is expressly taught in the Bible, as posted above, and although Biblical scholars disagree about many details in the Bible, including why Jesus was at the marriage in Cana and why He turned the water into wine, there is no disagreement about the fact that the wine was an alcoholic beverage and that the wine that Jesus Himself drank with his disciples was an alcoholic beverage.

There are, however, more than a few willfully ignorant Baptist pastors who have less respect for the truth than they do for their own personal and ill-informed opinions and who preach and teach misinformation. For this reason it is crucial that Baptists carefully and prayerfully study the Bible for themselves, using the best resources available to them for that study.

 

The proof that real wine was served at the Lord's supper. was the fact that some of the Corinthian Christians were GETTING DRUNK during the reception of communion.I Cor 11:21. One simply cannot get drunk on grape juice, only wine.

 

...nor can you get drunk on a highly watered down wine as many suggest.

 

You'll probably die of waterpoisoning before getting drunk.
Ofcourse it's not that drinking undiluted wine never happened, it's just that it was seen in the Greaco-Roman world as crude.