wine

[IAMWEAK_2007]

I just cant get so far a good expalnation about the wine being mentioned on book of John ch 2.

Sorry if this is not the right thread, I'll appreciate someone can lead me to the previous post about this topic. I know this is very common topic.

BTW, I'm new here.

thanks

 

[preachinjesus]

Jesus drank wine...wine was a common beverage during Jesus' time.

I'm not sure what else you're looking for, maybe if you hash this out some more that would be helpful.

 

[webdog]

The Bible mentions cities...we know what cities are.
The Bible mentions horses...we know what horses are.
The Bible mentions grapes...we know what grapes are.
The Bible mentions wine...we know what wine is.

It's actually quite simple.

Welcome to the BB, btw :thumbs:

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Nowhere in Scripture can one prove that Jesus drank alcoholic wine... NOWHERE!!!!

 

[webdog]

Jesus proves it Himself in Luke 7 in His own words. Whether you agree with this "proof" or not is on you.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

In Luke 7, Jesus only said He was eating and drinking. He did not say He was drinking alcoholic wine. As a matter of fact, He refuted the accusation that He was drinking alcohol by saying, "But wisdom is justified of all her children."

His Disciples were later accused of being drunk on "new wine" when they were not. The accusers knew the Disciples did not drink alcohol. That is why they falsely accused them.

Jesus ate and drank, but what He drank was not alcoholic. You are reading into the text that which is not there.

 

[annsni]

And around and around we go... where it will stop, NOBODY knows.

Wine is alcohol. The same word is used in verses as good AND bad. Overuse of alcohol is wrong. A little wine for your stomach? That's OK. No one is reading anything into what it clearly states.

 

[kubel]

Wine was quite heavily cut back-in-the-day, so it was much less potent than our idea of wine today, and in some cases was the only safe source of water.

I'm with webdog here. I believe Luke 7 is very clear.

Luke 7:33-34 For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil. The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!

It is a fact that Jesus ate bread and drank wine. What he was not was a glutton and drunk.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

1 Timothy 5:23 was not speaking of alcoholic wine. Alcohol is not good for the stomach when the stomach is ill.

 

[Joe]

Everyone, put on their seatbelts !

Imho, Luke 7 isn't referring to Jesus drinking wine at all. Imho, his words prove the opposite when referring to John the Baptist

Luke 7:33 For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and you say "He has a demon".

Jesus was saying there is absolutely no reason for the Pharisees and Lawyers to question John the Baptist since he did not partake of the wine ( mind altering poisons) or bad (stale or old) bread. So don't accuse him of acting goofy


Luke 7:34 "The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, "look, a glutton and winebibber, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!"

So it seems clear (to me) that Jesus was NOT drinking any alcoholic beverage because Jesus is mocking those who call him a winebibber.

Think about it. They COULD be justified in calling him a winebibber IF he WAS drinking a mind altering substance such as wine. But he wasn't so that is why Jesus mocked them for it.

 

[tinytim]

Wine is wine...
Jesus made it, Paul encouraged drinking it, and only people with a cultural bias will argue otherwise.

The hardest thing is to differentiate between our cultural interpretations of scripture, and biblical interpretations...

When we seperate our cultural understandings of what Grandma, and Grandpa told us.. we are open to what God actually said...

BTW, why would Paul forbid bishops from drinking, and Deacons from drinking "much" if it was just Grape Juice?

The Bible says "wine" ... The Bible means what it says.

To make it mean juice, is to subtract "wine" from God's word, and add "Juice"...

And there is a warning to people that change God's word in Revelation.

 

[tinytim]

1 Timothy 5:23 was not speaking of alcoholic


wine. Alcohol is not good for the stomach when the stomach is ill.

Yes it is, Alcohol kills germs.

We have been through this before, and if I wasn't bored right now, I wouldn't have even responded...

So, I will leave you to believe what you want.

goodbye.

 

[kubel]

But Joe, by your argument, does that also mean Jesus was not eating bread because they called him a glutton?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

To make it mean juice, is to subtract "wine" from God's word, and add "Juice"...

No, to make it alcoholic when it is clearly not alcoholic adds to God's Word. Isaiah clearly tells us the juice of the grape is called wine when it is still in the cluster.

And there is a warning to people that change God's word in Revelation.

Yes, there is... so why add to God's Word by saying Jesus created an alcoholic beverage? why add to it by saying Paul prescribed an alcoholic beverage?

 

[Joe]

I can see your parallel (point) kubel except a glutton is someone who eats in excess, not just someone who eats to stay alive. So imo, using that logic to someone who drinks is the same definition. Someone who is drinking is not necessarily drinking wine (or alcohol).

Jesus is not a glutton either so that makes these accusations false.

 

[tinytim]

No, to make it alcoholic when it is clearly not alcoholic adds to God's Word. Isaiah clearly tells us the juice of the grape is called wine when it is still in the cluster.



Yes, there is... so why add to God's Word by saying Jesus created an alcoholic beverage? why add to it by saying Paul prescribed an alcoholic beverage?

Not adding to or subtracting... God said "oinos"
And God meant it...

If you want to deny it Go ahead.

but Oinos is Wine... Go ahead, show me where it is translated as juice.

 

[Sopranette]

A "bibber" is not a person who has a glass of wine. It is a person who drinks alcohol continually and excessively.

love

Sopranette

 

[Joe]

Hmm.....now this is getting interesting :thumbs: Gotta see the answer to Tim

What's your point Sopranette?

 

[BrotherJames]

1Cr 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

God wouldn't condone wine knowing some would be addicted to it, keeping them from coming to Christ. Saying the Lord promoted wine is blasphemy.

 

[kubel]

If I were drinking a Dr Pepper, someone wouldn't call me a drunk simply because I'm drinking a soda. I would have to be drinking something alcoholic for someone to come to the conclusion (even a false one) that I was a drunk.

Likewise, they called Jesus a winebibber not because he was seen sipping on some welches, but because he was seen drinking something alcoholic.

We both agree He was not a glutton simply because he ate bread. And we both agree He was not a drunk simply because he drank some wine.

JTB didn't eat bread + JTB didn't drink wine = he must be filled with demons.
Fact + Fact = False assumption.

Jesus did eat bread + Jesus did drink wine = he must be a glutton and a drunk.
Fact + Fact = False assumption.

Another chapter that's often not brought up is John 19, where Jesus was given vinegar. If you do a study on that word (#3690), you will find it was an acidic tasting alcoholic drink that was often mixed with water (but could also be used undiluted) that the Roman soldiers and the poor were accustomed to drinking. It was definitely alcoholic. And the Bible says that Jesus "received it" before crying, "it is finished".