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Winston Churchill on Politics, and Mohammedanism in 1899

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by carpro, Jul 5, 2005.

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  1. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    No you don't.

    You're surmising. You may have reason to suspect but you don't know .

    Churchill was using the language of his time. Nothing unusual in that.
     
    #41 carpro, Jul 7, 2005
  2. mioque

    mioque New Member

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    Call me arrogant.
    I've read enough texts covering the Middle-East written in that era to make that judgement.
    Just like I call you arrogant for claiming that you know this for certain:

    "This is the result of the appeasement of Spain.
    Terrorist tactics of intimidation worked so well in Spain, they believe terror will weaken the will of others as well."
    http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/1/3553.html
     
    #42 mioque, Jul 7, 2005
  3. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    That is incredibly profound. How true! Thank you for sharing that. Perhaps I need to take that to heart myself.
     
    #43 Johnv, Jul 7, 2005
  4. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    I agree (don't pass out) with you here. By our standards, his words are bogited. But these words were delivered over a undred years ago, and we must place them in such a context. The question is, were the words bigoted by the standards of the time. Perhaps they were a bit haughty (as were most political speeches), but bigoted? I think it falls short of that definition by the standards of the day. I really don't see how anyone could see Churchill as anything other than a great statesman, in his time or any other.
    Yes and no. Piracy of ships in Atlantic waters was a serious issue for Jefferson and the Presidents who followed him. The Barbary pirates were from Muslim regions, but that is not any more or less significant than the Spanish pirates being from a Catholic region. I don't think one could argue that the early Presidents were fighting with Catholics. Then again, some might.
     
    #44 Johnv, Jul 7, 2005
  5. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    (doublepost)
     
    #45 Johnv, Jul 7, 2005
  6. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    You can call me names if you want but I'm not much into that sort of thing.

    I made a statement I'll stick by but it is my opinion , and as such, open to debate or question.

    On the other hand ,you claim to know something that you have no way of knowing for sure. Therefore, what you hold is also an opinion which you refuse to acknowledge as such.


    You have called that arrogance and I'll take your word for it.
     
    #46 carpro, Jul 7, 2005
  7. mioque

    mioque New Member

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    Suddenly you merely have an opinion!!!!!!
     
    #47 mioque, Jul 8, 2005
  8. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    All you had to do was ask.

    Surely you are not so naive as to believe I had facts to back up such a statement. It had to be a belief or opinion and I would have thought most people would have realized it and they probably do. I believe you do , too. (That's an opinion, BTW)

    For some reason you want to pretend you didn't. OK by me.

    Since you absolutely know that Churchill was merely parroting the line of the time and it was not his assessment as well, perhaps you would provide some proof?
     
    #48 carpro, Jul 8, 2005
  9. mioque

    mioque New Member

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    #49 mioque, Jul 8, 2005
  10. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    Lot's of reading there and not enough time. So why don't you just lead me to the part that says Churchill was just parroting the line of the times or didn't write that essay, or didn't believe what he wrote, or maybe plagiarized someone else?

    Any thing at all to back up your absolute knowledge that Churchill didn't make this assessment or was quoting someone else.

    Anything at all that closely resembles proof and mentions his name or the words he wrote.

    Dealing with an arrogant person, as you refer to yourself, is somewhat of a bore and resembles a merry go round.

    This is your last chance. I'm tired of your games.
     
    #50 carpro, Jul 8, 2005
  11. mioque

    mioque New Member

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    Well Carpro if your not interested in the grand Orientalist tradition of (at times pseudo-)scholarship, you will never find out.
     
    #51 mioque, Jul 9, 2005
  12. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    I know a person with an opinion they think is fact when I see one.

    Then when they can't provide proof of their opinion/facts, they like to send people on wild goose chases.

    Sorry to spoil your little game.

    Your opinion may matter, but that's all you have in this case.

    If not, prove it.
     
    #52 carpro, Jul 9, 2005
  13. mioque

    mioque New Member

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    carpro
    I have to admit defeat.
    You see I dug up the works of a couple of 19th and 18th century authors who gave their opinions of Middle-Eastern cultures, opinions that were strikingly similar to the one produced by Churchill, but what I ofcourse can't produce is an admission by churchill that he was influenced in his opinions by other western authors.
     
    #53 mioque, Jul 10, 2005
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