"Winter Soldiers" Drop Lawsuit to Avoid Depositions

Better than that. They found the lady who typed the original memos. She said that the ones Rather was given were copies, but the information on them was accurate.

Knox is 86 years old, and completely comfortable in the eye of a storm. She spent more than two decades keeping pilots and officers in line at Ellington Air Force Base in Houston. Now, she wants to set the record straight about the memos that CBS News obtained.

Knox says she didn’t type these memos, but she says she did type ones that contained the same information.

“I know that I didn’t type them," says Knox. "However, the information in those is correct.”

Later, in the interview she said:
"“Bush seemed to be having a good time. He didn't seem to be having any problem with the other pilots,” says Knox. “But, his time there, it seemed that the other fellows were, I’m going to say this, sort of resentful of him because of his attitude … that he really didn’t have to go by the rules.”

Knox says that Killian started what she calls a "cover-your-back" file -- a personal file where he stored the memos about the problems with Mr. Bush's performance, his failure to take a physical, and the pressure Killian felt from upstairs.

She addressed one memo, and a reference to retired Gen. Staudt pushing for a positive officer training report on Lt. Bush.
"’Staudt is pushing to sugar coat it.’ Does that sound like Col. Killian? Is that the way it felt,” Rather asked Knox.

“That's absolutely the way he felt about that," says Knox."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/15/60II/main643768.shtml

Rather messed up badly. But that doesn't let Bush off the hook for going AWOL, and then using influence to escape punishment. It's not treason, since treason would require him to actually help the enemy, not just cut and run as he did.

On the other hand, Kerry volunteered for the most hazardous duty in the Navy, served well and bravely, and developed tactics for handling ambushes that worked. He was wounded in combat, and earned the respect and admiration of his crew.

His OERs were superior (compare to Bush, whose OER merely states that he can't be rated, because he hadn't been seen for a year)

In the old days, the traitors were the guys who helped the enemy, and the patriots were the ones who fought them. The crowd around Bush look on a man who doesn't duck combat when he has the wealth and connections to do so, as a fool. They all found ways to avoid serving.

Maybe that's what they mean; "Kerry is a traitor to his class."

 

Allowing a war crime to be committed is a war crime.

 

Allowing a war crime is a war crime.

 

He said that he allowed attrocities to be committed that is a war crime.

 

Galatian

That is not AWOL. I did the AWOL reports. A soldier is NOT AWOL until reported AWOL. There is a series of steps that must be followed. The memos never imply that any of the steps were started. They certainly do not state that he was AWOL.

And they were faked. That is why Rather got in trouble.

I don't like people that go into the reserves to get better treatment - but Clinton ran and Kerry did not do his combat tour.

But, all we want to do is bash the guy that went and was a hot shot fly boy.

If ya' wanna complain about hot shot fly boys, I am there. But, to claim wrongly that he was AWOL - I won't support you.

 

Galatian

No, he's not charged with AWOL until he's reported AWOL. As his commander observed with some frustration, Bush was "special."

Not according to the lady who typed the originals. She says the information Rather presented was accurate. Rather had forged copies of the originals.

[quiote]I don't like people that go into the reserves to get better treatment [/quote]

How about those who go into the reserves to get better treatment, and then go AWOL? Bush's supervisor couldn't even do his OER, because he failed to show for an entire year.

Clinton did not behave responsibly, however, he did it legally. Bush just cut and ran, after swearing to serve faithfully.

Kerry, on getting his third wound, got cycled out the same way any other combat troop did. He fought well, and bravely, having volunteered for the most hazardous duty in the Navy.

And here's something you probably don't know. Before he left, he lobbied his commander to give the crew a tour that was less hazardouis. His men went through the "days of hell" in which they sometimes had more than one firefight a day. The slimeball who manufacutured the "Swift Boats" group (with the advice of a Bush campaign lawyer) was the next commander of Kerry's boat. He never served with Kerry, contrary to his earlier interviews, but Kerry did him a huge favor.

The guy who refused a direct order to reprort for a physical, after he learned they were going to be checking for cocaine use. The guy who was busted for refusing that order. The guy who just disappeared when his country called on him. The guy, according to the lady who typed the memos documenting his lack of fiber, who was resented by his peers, because he thought the rules didn't apply to him. That guy.

Bush was a disgrace to those guys. I know those guys. Some of them are my friends. Not one flinched at anything, including combat.

Bush was very definitely absent without leave. He was under the TCMJ, which can be found in the Texas Code. It very clearly defines AWOL. You might want to read it sometime.

 

You friend have deep seated anger issues.

I was a legal clerk in the Army. You have made statements that do not hold up to the 'legal' facts. Just as my opinion cannot put Kerry behind bars for what he is known to have done, your opinion based upon forged documents cannot put Bush behind bars.

Hearsay is used only underneath article 15 of the UCMJ. And I believe that the statute of limitations has expired on Bush even if there were supporting documents - but your secretary seemed to indicate that there were not.

For what Kerry claimed to have done, he can still be punished. He won't be - and to be honest, I hold him (Kerry) much less anger than you hold against the POTUS.

What Kerry told his children that he did in Vietnam was evil - Kerry's daughter was proud to repeat his evil. That man is a contradiction to everything that our Forefathers, our fathers, and our boys and girls of today fought to give us in the USA.

 

If you want to say that Jane was not that bad - I will admit that she was just a stupid little rich girl.

But, Kerry was a disgrace to his uniform - IMHO. Salute the uniform and the blood shed for the privilege to wear it - not the imitation officer inside of it.

What he did was evil. If he had wanted to be a little rich kid and get his political badge of courage to serve as a future president, he should have done like Bush, or even Clinton.

 

Sounds like projection to me. I served honorably, so even thought I didn't vote for Kerry, I admire his patriotism and courage. And I have no respect for Bush for failing to serve honorably and going AWOL.

It's all true. Again, I suggest you look up the TCMJ and see for yourself.

Indeed. As the Col. said, Bush was being protected. No one could touch him. The squadron secretary said that other resented it because he seemed to think the rules didn't apply to him.

Sure. He got away with it. That doesn't redeem him.

If so, then everyone up the chain of command would be. Kerry was just honest about it, and regretted following those orders, which we now consider to be illegal.

I see what you've written, but somehow, given what else you've written, it's not very convincing.

Thank God there were more Kerrys than Bushes in the military.

 

I guess Bush must have beaten you up on the squash or tennis court really badly. Maybe he took your girl away from you.

But, what ever it was that he did to you get over it already. He has gotten over you. If he held a tenth of the anger against you that you hold against him, you would find yourself in jail trying to prove your claims.

As long as you keep that anger, it will continue to just eat away at you.

 

Originally Posted by The Galatian
In the old days, the traitors were the guys who helped the enemy, and the patriots were the ones who fought them.

Carpo, it has nothing to do with anything in the real world. It's just a fantasy you dreamed up to justify supporting a dodger like Bush against a patriot like Kerry.

You'd have to be really, really conservative to think Benedict Arnold was a hero. From the moment his treason was discovered, most Americans considered Arnold to be a criminal, not a hero.

 

Men, I really don't know what to say . . .

 

There aren't many Tories left in this country.