Without Union Concessions, Bankruptcy Better Than A Bailout, Republicans Say

[LeBuick]

The Senate is wanting the Union to concede its benefits just as the execs have already made its own concessions.

Correction... The Senate would "REQUIRE" the union to certain concessions like management "SAID" they would do but there is nothing in writing. The union already offered some concessions just like Management did. Is it the Senate's position to decide who needs to give more?

My point, if the Senate is going to legislate union concessions then management concession should also be included in the legislation. Basically, they want to document what the bondholders and UAW will do but management doesn't get the same documented obligations.

Also, none of these conditions were placed on the banks and they are just as in danger of going belly up. This is also not Senates place to make such concessions. The GOP is clearly trying to bust the union through legislation and it should not be allowed to happen.

 

[Pastor Larry]

That's the way I see this requirement. They are saying the workers should be paid like the workers in the south. That is telling them what to pay their workers. Yes, the Big three could always turn down the money but my point was you didn't see this type requirement placed on the banks.

But I would say that first that they are telling them under what conditions they will give them money. If they want to pay workers more, they are free to do that. But they won't do it with the government money. Second, the fact that the requirement wasn't placed on banks is probably because bank worker wages are not that big of a problem, and executive pay was addressed. And the bank legislation was just bad legislation.

Bondholders, yes. You would have to point out management in his agreement cuz I sure don't see them listed.

I odn't remember exactly now. I watched some of his speech on CSpan. I think management has already taken the hit though. Living around here, I have seen it first hand, more in management than in union. Basically, the companies don't have to do anything to get rid of management or lower their wages. They have already done that.

 

[KenH]

My point is why should the GOP do the UAW any favors when the UAW will not only organizationally supports the Dems but actively discourages its membership from voting GOP.

The same point could be made about conservative evangelicals and the Democratic Party.

 

[Carolina Baptist]

That's the way I see this requirement. They are saying the workers should be paid like the workers in the south. That is telling them what to pay their workers. Yes, the Big three could always turn down the money but my point was you didn't see this type requirement placed on the banks.

You are right. They didn't place the necessary controls on the banks. Within weeks the excutives were waisting large amounts of OUR money on a retreat. I would hope congress would learn a lesson. If they are begging for money they need to be ready to give up something. I understand that it was not the workers that made the mistakes but the businesses can not continue to fuel the "gravy train". If changes are not made the big 3 can not survive even with the bail out. If congress gives OUR money to them without concessions they are making the unions even more powerful and we can see what an out of control union has done the the industry.

Also, you made reference to the pay earned in the south. I would remind you that some of the tax monney that the big 3 is demanding will come from the workers in the south. Maybe it's time to move the industry.

 

[LeBuick]

I think management has already taken the hit though. Living around here, I have seen it first hand, more in management than in union. Basically, the companies don't have to do anything to get rid of management or lower their wages. They have already done that.

I will take your word since you are there to see it first hand. My understanding was there were VP's making 6 figures over everything but the fax machine all expecting a bonus for sinking the ship (Or was it for the smooth waters they sailed before the ship started sinking).

 

[LeBuick]

If congress gives OUR money to them without concessions they are making the unions even more powerful and we can see what an out of control union has done the the industry.

The concessions should be to the company and not UAW. The money is going to the company and it is the companies job to stand up to UAW. That has been the problem all along, the company hasn't been standing up to the union.

Also, you made reference to the pay earned in the south. I would remind you that some of the tax monney that the big 3 is demanding will come from the workers in the south. Maybe it's time to move the industry.

Spoken like a true Southern GOP.... :thumbs:

I'm a GM man myself, If Toyota would make a GM Buick then I'd be all over it.

 

[Carolina Baptist]

The concessions should be to the company and not UAW. The money is going to the company and it is the companies job to stand up to UAW. That has been the problem all along, the company hasn't been standing up to the union.

As you have said "it is the companies job to stand up to the UAW". A job that they have FAILED at. If OUR tax money is going to bail them out then we need some garuntee that they will stand up to the UAW. We can't deal with this problem on a smile and a handshake. It must be part of the contract.

 

[Carolina Baptist]

deleted post

 

[LeBuick]

As you have said "it is the companies job to stand up to the UAW". A job that they have FAILED at. If OUR tax money is going to bail them out then we need some garuntee that they will stand up to the UAW. We can't deal with this problem on a smile and a handshake. It must be part of the contract.

I would think they should demand the executives be replaced with people with a business plan and a back bone to stand up to the UAW. The Senate shouldn't compensate for the executives by making legislation. That is pure government interference which is something the GOP normally hates.

 

[Carolina Baptist]

I would think they should demand the executives be replaced with people with a business plan and a back bone to stand up to the UAW. The Senate shouldn't compensate for the executives by making legislation. That is pure government interference which is something the GOP normally hates.

The bailout itself is government interference. If it is going to happen, we need some required changes that have a chance to make the companies competitive.

I agree that many of the executives, enculding all three CEOs, need to be replaced.

 

[Crabtownboy]

The bailout itself is government interference. If it is going to happen, we need some required changes that have a chance to make the companies competitive.

I agree that many of the executives, enculding all three CEOs, need to be replaced.

With the way things have gone recently I fear the executives will get big bonuses for talking the government into the bailout.

 

[windcatcher]

KenH
25,000 Posts Club Join Date: May 2002

Location: Arkansas
Posts: 29,491


RE: Without Union Concessions, Bankruptcy Better Than A Bailout, Republicans Say

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squire Robertsson
My point is why should the GOP do the UAW any favors when the UAW will not only organizationally supports the Dems but actively discourages its membership from voting GOP.


The same point could be made about conservative evangelicals and the Democratic Party.
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Not fair nor comparable, Ken. If you are reasonable you should know this!


'conservative evangelicals' are not card carrying members of a POLITICAL or WORK FORCE ('economic') organization:
Who are the members of the 'conservative evangelicals? Are they who we refer to when identifying our understanding and acceptance of Biblical values and its expression in the whole of life in spreading the gospel. The financial influence and power of the 'conservative evangelicals' is in the areas of church and mission and benevolence to the needy.... not in supporting political candidates or parties.

They have no allegiance to any party, but expect that all parties and candidates who value the ideas and ideals of the individual, the institutions of faith and family, will have respect for opinions expressed from a Christian's perspective and acknowledge their viewpoint whether or not they support every view..
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[return to topic]
The executives are willing to concede their incomes.
Where and what are the workers willing to do?

The unions are collectives and part of the problem and resistant and encumbered by their own inability to change direction quickly. In the past they respond to good years and optimistic forecast to make gains for their membership and their leadership..... but now the times are reversing and the very industry on which their organization and collective power depends, will die if they can't adapt and make drastic changes...... which they wont..... it would set too much a precedent and unions always believe in futures.

 

[KenH]

The vast majority of conservative evangelicals vote in lockstep for GOP candidates.

 

[billwald]

>The executives are willing to concede their incomes.

Big deal for people who probably have $billions in Swiss banks. It will not change their standard of living. Will they also burn their stock options?

 

[Magnetic Poles]

>The executives are willing to concede their incomes.

Big deal for people who probably have $billions in Swiss banks. It will not change their standard of living. Will they also burn their stock options?

Exactly! The $1 salaries are for show. These guys' salaries are a small percentage of their compensation.

It has been the decisions of these incompetent, inept, overpaid prima donnas that have made the decisions that have bankrupted their firms...not the guys & gals on the assembly line who go to work everyday to execute decisions made in the corner offices.

 

[carpro]

With the way things have gone recently I fear the executives will get big bonuses for talking the government into the bailout.

Not a chance , but you have some strange fears.

Jealous? Envious?

What's the biblical word? Oh yeah...covet, one of the "thou shalt not"'s.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

The vast majority of conservative evangelicals vote in lockstep for GOP candidates.

When you live in the San Francisco Bay Area, you come to conclusion that you have no other choice. Gavin Newsom, the mayor of San Francisco, all but laughed the anti-homosexual marriage ministerial delegation out of his office. My federal choices are Boxer, Feinstein and Speir or candidates to their left. And you expect me not to vote a straight GOP ticket?

 

[KenH]

Everyone doesn't live in San Francisco or California.

 

[LeBuick]

When you live in the San Francisco Bay Area, you come to conclusion that you have no other choice. Gavin Newsom, the mayor of San Francisco, all but laughed the anti-homosexual marriage ministerial delegation out of his office. My federal choices are Boxer, Feinstein and Speir or candidates to their left. And you expect me not to vote a straight GOP ticket?

What happen to Willie Brown? Wasn't he a decent mayor?

 

[Squire Robertsson]

What happen to Willie Brown? Wasn't he a decent mayor?

Yeup, and rides in a place of honor in the annual G*Y Pride Day Parade. Without him in the State Assembly, the g/y political machine would not have the power its has today. He sees the "g rights" struggle as a follow on to the civil rights struggle of the 50s and 60s.