Wives Submit to your Husbands

And women do the same today... try to usurp the God given authority of men over women.

 

Amen! I think that pastor hit the nail on the head.

 

Do family roles relate to gender roles in the church?

Some who teach that the wife should submit to her husband use texts relating to that to support the view that women should not be elders/pastors. Eg, "the church bears some resemblance to social family structures and practice." (Saucy, Women's Prohibition to Teach Men " , Journal of the Evangelical Theological Society, March, '94).

Is the role of the wife in the family related to (the perceived as Biblical) male dominance in the church?

 

And women do the same today... try to usurp the God given authority of men over women. [/QUOTE]

Are you meaning to say "men over women" or your individual husband over you?

Karen

 

Then you have a problem with THIS scripture:

</font>[/QUOTE]No, I believe that that passage describes a corruption of the previous relationship.

I have no problem with the scripture; it is your interpretation that I cannot accept. Look at my previous posts, and you'll see where I stand. </font>[/QUOTE]Then you do not believe the female caused the fall. Is that what you are saying? Because of the fall the woman is paying a bodily penalty from conception to birth. God added to that the woman is to talk things over with her husband, and the husband is to have the final say, as the woman can easily be deceived.

We can see the make up of the woman, and what her desires are. Women are much more careless in their thought, and apply what they think of the matter. We see this when woman added to the word of God when she answered the serpent. Will not expand greatly on the others, other than to say the woman coveted a New food, and it was pleasing to look at, and most of all her covetness lead her into idolatry. She now had a new god, for if she ate of the tree she would herself become a god, and know good from evil. God did not born Adam for this reason, or form the woman from Adam to be Gods. Her biggest mistake was she came to believe a lie, for her new God told her “surely you will not die”.

But you say, Adam did the same thing as the woman and took ate of an apple. Yes Adam did, but Adam did it for another purpose. Adam was not deceived, therefore the woman is relegated for all time until the end to be subject to the man, and get permission before making important decisions.

Why did Adam do it? “The greatest of these is LOVE.” Adam loved the woman (not as a God of idol worship), but Adam coveted the woman and was willing to take the consequences of his action for they were of one flesh and bone, and Adam was not deceived by the smooth talking and beauty of the serpent. The woman did it not for love, but of self and acknowledging her allegiance to her God, Satan for what she thought he could offer her.

Has it ever struck you what would have happened if Adam refused the advances of the woman? Adam would still be living, taking a new woman when the old one died.

The first man Adam gave his life for his wife, bringing sin and death to all, with all born into sin, and therefore idol worshipers. The second Adam gave His life to reconcile the world, bringing life, the quickening of the spirit to all that believe on His name for their salvation.

What we love the most will bring death, or it will bring life.Christian faith, ituttut Galatians 1:11-12.

 

Texas that is not an issue. I am not finding men saying they don't have to love and give themselves to the wife because she is not submissive, gentle, meek etc. No I realize that I am to fullfill my duties regardless of what the woman does. NOw if I do does that automatically mean she will submit. Of course not.

The other way around is also wrong and unscriptural. Women are to submit regardless of what the husband does. Because it is unto the Lord.

What the arguement always is that women do not have to fullfill lwhat God commands because the man does or doesn't do this. But on the other hand the man is to love and give himself regardless of what the woman does.

IN order to remain consistant to the word, we are to obey it. It is the word of God. He has not given excuses for either side not to live as He has instructed because of the attitude of the other.

 

Thank you Hamricba, I think that is a clear stance according to scripture.

 

Absolutely, it is teamwork of the highest caliber

I'm thinkin'...

 

Sure, the husband advises, encourages, points in the right direction, and then does what he thinks best. It is just that the final decision about what she is going to do is entirely up to her.

 

I think I know why this is too easy the second time around here for this topic.


NO WOMEN!

I find that women have such a hard time with this role and try to find so many ways to not make it so. That is why it is always an issue, because most women make it one.

I asked the question for husbands to see if men want to argue about their roles. Seems so far none do.

If I asked the teens at church should they obey their parents, regardless of what their relationship is with God (provided of course that it does not go directly against the word of God) They would almost be a 100% yes. But when it comes to this part of God's rule of authority then most women want to dance all around it.

Hey it is no different when I get in the flesh and don't want to obey authorities over me. I understand this.

Artimaeus, nice icon...hammer and nail

Timtoolman

 

I am glad that you said most and not all women, but it takes the husband to understand his role and his wife's role as well. The attitude of the husband is very important.

 

And women do the same today... try to usurp the God given authority of men over women. </font>[/QUOTE]Are you meaning to say "men over women" or your individual husband over you?

Karen [/QUOTE]

Husband over wife. Sorry that wasn't more clear. I was refering to the previously quoted verse from Genesis which was speaking to Adam and Eve.

I do believe many women in general are fighting tooth and nail to get jobs over men and are power hungry. In our church, I see families load into cars and Mom is driving. Mom has the money. Mom makes the decisions. Moms have more education and better paying jobs and hubby lugs around the children, takes off work when they're ill, etc. Major role reversal!

 

I believe that this verse, "Wives submit to your husbands" is a matter that a husband and wife must decide the meaning of, with the guidance of the Lord. I do not believe that another person can decide for my family what it means and if I am submitting to my husband. My husband decides if I am submitting to him.

I do not think this is the same as a woman (married or single) who wants to be treated equally in the workplace, make the same wage for equal work, and be as educated as money and time will allow. And if a woman is going to achieve this, she has to fight for it.

What does this have to do with driving?
Are women not supposed to drive? Or are they not suppose to drive if their husbands are in the car? What if he asked her to drive?

What does this have to do with education? Or we not going to educate our girls?

If the wife works, maybe the husband wants her to work. Isn't this submission, if she does what he wants?

I don't see any problem with fathers taking care of their children, taking them places, and taking them to the doctor. Children are his responsibility also.

Now I'm really not talking about role reversal, but if that is what a family decides is best for them, and God is the head of their family, and the man is the head of their household, then that is their decision.

Another point is that I believe a woman needs to know how to be independent in the event that she does not have a husband to take care of her.

In summary, I believe that the definition of submission must be made by the husband and the wife with the guidance of the Lord.

 

I'm not sure what the problem is with women driving.
Many times my husband doesn't want to drive becasue he works hard all week and is tired.

Education? What are we to do not send little girls to school? Is it usurping authority to have been to school and be more educated? Should men choose only wives with less education then them, or women choose husbands with more education then them?

If a family chooses to have two incomes what is the wife to do refuse all jobs that have more pay then their husbands?

Are fathers not to spend time with their children? Are they not to take them places? Like fishing, or the park, are fathers not to have relationships with their children?

And the scripture for all these is????
There is nothing in the bible that prhobits women from being educated, or driving, or making a bigger pay check then their husbands, and certainly nothing about seperating families by the fathers not spending time with their children.

 

Actually, if you read Proverbs discussion of a godly wife, you find that she works. She goes to the fields and gleans for the glory of her husband.

Tim -

I agree God means for husbands to love wives and for wives to submit to husbands, but you take it a few interesting steps further than I am sure I can accept as Godly truth.

I do a lot of work with people who are definately not main-stream Baptist folks. There are men out there who prostitute their wives. So, assuming a woman becomes a Christian after she has married. Which bible truth does she follow? Submit to the will of a spouse that orders her to commit adultry? Or politely refuse to commit adultry?

Sure, it is an extreme. There are tons of extremes. They happen every day.

There are arrests on records of sex offenders who told their wives to help them with rape and murder.

 

I'm speaking, quite clearly, of the lack of attitude of submission Donna. We have 4 pages of lively discussion and you chose MY remarks to address.
This seems to be a pattern! ...................

......................

 

You are mostly right. If the husband does not love but the wife submits then he is guilty. If the wife does not submit but he loves then the wife is guilty.

However, since God has made the man the head (leader), if neither is behaving correctly then the man would bear responsibility for his behavior and hers while she only bears responsibility for her own.

 

That is a responsibility of a leader.

 

Depends on why they choose to have two incomes. Is it because one income won't provide the basic necessities of the family (to include a secure place to live) or is it because of an appetite for material things?

 

I'm speaking, quite clearly, of the lack of attitude of submission Donna. We have 4 pages of lively discussion and you chose MY remarks to address.
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</font>[/QUOTE]Dear Diane,
donnA asked you some of the questions I wondered about too, after reading your post. Your post was interesting. It went beyond a general principle to specific application.
And I am interested in how the woman driving means that she is unsubmissive.

In my opinion, there are going to be lots of variations from family to family in how the details of life are lived out.
And some attitudes I would not infer from things like who is driving.

Karen