WNDtold the story right

[Revmitchell]

Pastor David Jones and his wife Mary have been told that they cannot invite friends to their San Diego, Calif. home for a bible study — unless they are willing to pay tens of thousands of dollars to San Diego County.

"On Good Friday we had an employee from San Diego County come to our house, and inform us that the bible study that we were having was a religious assembly, and in violation of the code in the county." David Jones told FOX News.

"We told them this is not really a religious assembly — this is just a bible study with friends. We have a meal, we pray, that was all," Jones said.

A few days later, the couple received a written warning that cited "unlawful use of land," ordering them to either "stop religious assembly or apply for a major use permit," the couple's attorney Dean Broyles told San Diego news station 10News.

But the major use permit could cost the Jones' thousands of dollars just to have a few friends over.

For David and Mary Jones, it's about more than a question of money.

"The government may not prohibit the free exercise of religion," Broyles told FOX News. "I believe that our Founding Fathers would roll over in their grave if they saw that here in the year 2009, a pastor and his wife are being told that they cannot hold a simple bible study in their own home."

"The implications are great because it’s not only us that’s involved," Mary Jones said. "There are thousands and thousands of bible studies that are held all across the country. What we’re interested in is setting a precedent here — before it goes any further — and that we have it settled for the future."

More Here

 

[annsni]

If one is able to have friends over for a dinner party, a Tupperware party or a graduation party, then one would be able to, by law, have a Bible study in their own home. Period. This won't stand in court.

 

[tinytim]

Forgot the link under 'more here' dude!!! ...

Here I'll come to your rescue Rev... LOL



Click here


Or here

For video

 

[OldRegular]

Pastor David Jones and his wife Mary have been told that they cannot invite friends to their San Diego, Calif. home for a bible study — unless they are willing to pay tens of thousands of dollars to San Diego County.

"On Good Friday we had an employee from San Diego County come to our house, and inform us that the bible study that we were having was a religious assembly, and in violation of the code in the county." David Jones told FOX News.

"We told them this is not really a religious assembly — this is just a bible study with friends. We have a meal, we pray, that was all," Jones said.

A few days later, the couple received a written warning that cited "unlawful use of land," ordering them to either "stop religious assembly or apply for a major use permit," the couple's attorney Dean Broyles told San Diego news station 10News.

But the major use permit could cost the Jones' thousands of dollars just to have a few friends over.

For David and Mary Jones, it's about more than a question of money.

"The government may not prohibit the free exercise of religion," Broyles told FOX News. "I believe that our Founding Fathers would roll over in their grave if they saw that here in the year 2009, a pastor and his wife are being told that they cannot hold a simple bible study in their own home."

"The implications are great because it’s not only us that’s involved," Mary Jones said. "There are thousands and thousands of bible studies that are held all across the country. What we’re interested in is setting a precedent here — before it goes any further — and that we have it settled for the future."

More Here

We see more and more of this persecution of Christians by government officials; it will only get worse!

 

[Magnetic Poles]

We see more and more of this persecution of Christians by government officials; it will only get worse!

This doesn't rise to the level of persecution. When people die for their faith, to call this persecution is insulting to the real martyrs.

However, if it is as preseneted, a small gathering of a few friends at a home (say 8-10 folks) then the government needs to butt out. Obviously someone must have complained.

 

[Jon-Marc]

It sounds like communism is alive and well in San Diego.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

It sounds like communism is alive and well in San Diego.

Had to take it one step over the line, didn't you? Please explain how this has anything to do with communism. At best, it is addressing a hazard of lots of cars regularly coming and going into and out of a residential area. At worst, it is local government overstepping its bounds. There is redress available, and it sounds like it is being pursued. Hardly communism.

 

[Revmitchell]

We see more and more of this persecution of Christians by government officials; it will only get worse!

That is right. Persecution comes at different levels and needs to be dealt with early on so it does not escalate.

 

[Jedi Knight]

Shhhhh....I'm going to a home bible study tonight.

 

[just-want-peace]

Shhhhh....I'm going to a home bible study tonight.

You've done it now! MP's gonna report you to the authorities for some kind of violation.:tongue3:

Next time just do it quietly so the libs don't know about it.:thumbsup:

 

[Magnetic Poles]

You've done it now! MP's gonna report you to the authorities for some kind of violation.:tongue3:

Next time just do it quietly so the libs don't know about it.:thumbsup:

My commie moles have already infiltrated his group. We will have the bunch of them in the gulag soon, comrade.

 

[Timsings]

My commie moles have already infiltrated his group. . . .

Do they have anything to do with the ones burrowing in my yard?

Tim Reynolds

 

[targus]

At risk of criticism...

I understand the city's position here. My neighbor is a pastor of a church with a membership of about 300 or 400. Every once in a while he decides to hold some function at his house rather than at the church. We live in a neighborhood where the lot sizes are about 60 feet wide - so you can get an idea of how much room there is for parking in front of his house.

After the street is filled with cars, and his lawn is filled with cars - they start parking on my lawn.

In the summer they grill outdoors - and the occassion spills over into my yard. The next day I get to pick up all the paper plates and plastic cups from my yard. Once I had to drag his hammock out of my yard and into his.

I spoke to him about it a few times over the years but nothing changed.

Finally, my wife went over and talked to his wife about it. Then it stopped.

My feeling is that pastoring is his occupation and that he can conduct that occupation at his church just fine. A small gathering at his house is ok - but not when it impacts on the rest of the neighborhood.

 

[tinytim]

I guess the founding fathers didn't think about parking when they were planning the Bill of rights in the constitution which gives us the right to assemble...

But I guess they were not the first to overlook something like parking....
Afterall, am I the only one that ever planned an event, and then thought the day before the event...."Whoa.... if all of them show up, where will they park?!!"

So, I would like to cut our founding fathers some slack for this slight oversight in what, otherwise, would be a great document.

Seriously, no where does it say parking was an issue.. people are reading that in.
and like one of the comments on the article I linked too, you don't own the street in front of your house... taxpayers do.

 

[Mexdeaf]

Targus,

I agree with you. But the answer is not passing (or inventing) a new law. You and your wife handled it and the offending party- pastor or not is kinda beside the point- responded correctly in the end.

 

[tinytim]

OK,,, I have just gotten my hands on a rare document that I made up...
In this document, there is a conversation between Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson.. and it goes like this...

BF: I just read your passage on the right to assemble, good job.
TJ: Thank YOU...
BF: I just have one question... as an inventor I feel that one day people will have horseless carriages... maybe one for every person in America. If this comes to pass, what should we do to make sure the city streets are not too full?

TJ: Hmmm... (thinking for a few minutes).. OK Benny, my friend, my pal, I have the answer... I am writing a note that will be passed along to every future President. In the note I will tell them that if the day ever cometh (Yeah Tom was still speaking some old English.. but I digress) If that day ever cometh, I will instruct the President to takeover 70% of the company that produces these futuristic machines.. so that way the Government can ruin the company, and cut down on the number of horseless carriages.

BF: Do you think it will work?
TJ: Sure!! By that time the people will be so stupid, they won't even recognize their own rights... and if it doesn't work.. someone can just erase this part here about having a right to assemble.. and they can rewrite it to say something to the effect that they can assemble as long as they don't take up more than 4 parking spaces.

BF: What a genius! But what if this hinders the right of religious activities?
TJ: Hmmm.. I'll write one of the amendments to say that congress can not interfere with Religion... surely they won't mess with the Almighty... Will they?

 

[targus]

I guess the founding fathers didn't think about parking when they were planning the Bill of rights in the constitution which gives us the right to assemble...

Rights also bring responsibilities.

The right to assemble does not over ride anothers right to property. The right to property includes expectations of not being intruded by others. For instance you can not build a large building that will totally block the sun from your neighbors property.

you don't own the street in front of your house... taxpayers do.

And city governments have the authority to regulate parking.

This seems to me to come down to a question of rights. One's right to assembly and the practice of one's faith does not trump all other rights of all other persons.

Would you object if a new neighbor moved in and as a Muslim set up loud speakers in his yard to play the call to prayer every so many hours so that all of his fellow Muslims would know that it is time to pray?

Wouldn't you feel that his calls to prayer are a violation of your peace and quiet that you expect as part of your property rights?

 

[tinytim]

I'd set up my own loudspeakers and play some Casting Crowns..

Again, nothing in the true story about parking.. people are reading this into the story simply because they cannot believe that someplace in America this could happen.

There were no questions about how many cars or how many people come.. just questions like, do people say "amen".. If parking was a problem.. address the problem.. SD can do that without investigating the religious aspect of the small group.

If a person was having weekly tupperware parties and 6-10 extra cars were clogging the street.. the city would not come in and ask them, "do you all say 'amen'?"

It is clear from the questions that the city is trying to squelch their religion.

And yes, if a Muslim moved next door, I would support his or her right to religion.. and if a problem like parking, or loud noises arose, we would address that problem...

The city has ordinances to address those problems without interfering with religion.

If Parking WAS the main concern of the city.. address that problem.

But I think the real problem is this area in the city is not zoned for a church.
and the city is trying to prove it is a church.

Which zoning for religious purposes is really unconstitutional.

 

[Revmitchell]

Rights also bring responsibilities.

The right to assemble does not over ride anothers right to property. The right to property includes expectations of not being intruded by others. For instance you can not build a large building that will totally block the sun from your neighbors property.



And city governments have the authority to regulate parking.

This seems to me to come down to a question of rights. One's right to assembly and the practice of one's faith does not trump all other rights of all other persons.

Would you object if a new neighbor moved in and as a Muslim set up loud speakers in his yard to play the call to prayer every so many hours so that all of his fellow Muslims would know that it is time to pray?

Wouldn't you feel that his calls to prayer are a violation of your peace and quiet that you expect as part of your property rights?

This isnt abut parking no one even brought it up. They were concerned over the religious activities going on in the house.

 

[annsni]

At risk of criticism...

I understand the city's position here. My neighbor is a pastor of a church with a membership of about 300 or 400. Every once in a while he decides to hold some function at his house rather than at the church. We live in a neighborhood where the lot sizes are about 60 feet wide - so you can get an idea of how much room there is for parking in front of his house.

After the street is filled with cars, and his lawn is filled with cars - they start parking on my lawn.

In the summer they grill outdoors - and the occassion spills over into my yard. The next day I get to pick up all the paper plates and plastic cups from my yard. Once I had to drag his hammock out of my yard and into his.

I spoke to him about it a few times over the years but nothing changed.

Finally, my wife went over and talked to his wife about it. Then it stopped.

My feeling is that pastoring is his occupation and that he can conduct that occupation at his church just fine. A small gathering at his house is ok - but not when it impacts on the rest of the neighborhood.

My neighbor does that regularly with just regular parties. They get tents set up, have a DJ and have bartenders and such atleast 4-5 times a summer. Then there are the 3-4 times a season that they get a coach bus and a whole bunch of them go into the Mets games and leave their cars all over the block for us to drive around. But I certainly don't say that they can't do that. My only complaint is when they are still blasting music at 1AM and the chief of police is over there having a good time so there is no one that we can call about it. Oh well.