Women’s positions in the church poll

[jaigner]

No I am telling you that the church is already dead for the most part.

Nope. The big "C" Church is alive and well as the manifestation of Christ's Kingdom here on earth.

 

[RAdam]

Oh my goodness. You are holding me down to your own particular convictions. We are not talking about one of the fundamentals of the faith here. I'm not denying the virgin birth or resurrection. This issue is completely bound up in interpretation. I have struggled, prayed, read and done my best to follow the Spirit's leading in this issue. In the end, this is where I have come. The implications of your statement are actually pretty insulting and judgmental. You are basically saying that the majority of evangelicals who do not see this issue as so clear cut are intentionally not being faithful to the Bible. That is crazy. Some of the most godly, thoughtful, earnest and intelligent believers either 1) believe that women can serve in any capacity or 2) believe that there are restrictions, but it is not an easy interpretive task figuring out what it means or how to administer it.

If, in our finite human minds and hearts, we are wrong, God's grace is enough to cover our mistakes, just as it is if you are wrong, which I'm sure you don't believe you are either. I've been in your shoes before.

People are so thin skinned today.

Look, it is not an interpretation of scripture. We aren't talking about what the locusts represent in Revelation 9. We are talking about various sections of scripture which clearly state: 1) the husband is to be the head of the wife and the wife is to be in submission unto him and 2) women are not to be in leadership roles over men in the church are not to hold church offices. Those things are clearly stated in scripture and to get around that one must totally and completely wrest the scriptures. These people almost always end up saying, "I've studied, prayed, and followed the Spirit's leading in this." I once had a long conversation with a man who, when I showed him many verses that contradicted his position, he just said, "well, the Spirit showed this to me." I don't deny that the Spirit reveals the deep things of God, but often times people claim the Spirit revealed something to them when really they cooked it up in their own heads.

By the way, I never said people who wrested those scriptures were intentionally being unfaithful to the bible. I have no doubt they are very sincere. But, that doesn't change the fact that they are taking these scriptures and are wresting them from their clear meaning. That isn't being faithful to the bible, no matter how sincere the person may be. You and I are not at liberty to do what we want with scripture.

 

[freeatlast]

Nope. The big "C" Church is alive and well as the manifestation of Christ's Kingdom here on earth.

If you see Christ's kingdom here on earth then you stay here. I want to go to the real thing.

 

[freeatlast]

People are so thin skinned today.


By the way, I never said people who wrested those scriptures were intentionally being unfaithful to the bible. I have no doubt they are very sincere. But, that doesn't change the fact that they are taking these scriptures and are wresting them from their clear meaning. That isn't being faithful to the bible, no matter how sincere the person may be. You and I are not at liberty to do what we want with scripture.

Cane was sincere as was Uzzah, but both were sincerely wrong so sincerety is vain unless held in truth.

 

[Baptist Believer]

If you see Christ's kingdom here on earth then you stay here. I want to go to the real thing.

So the Church (and members thereof) are not part of Christ's Kingdom?

Wow.

 

[John Toppass]

We can read the Bible and see the way God set up the structure for the His Church. The liberal will delete or ignore or claim to read what is not there while insisting that it should be done their way because they think it is unfair the other way.

They (liberals) forget that is is not about them it is about God! They will slander the word by saying those who follow it are racist, bigoted, legalistic, or worse. (they may be these things but not because they believe the Bible). They (liberals) continue to try to change the Church by what they think while ignoring what God has simply set forth in His word.

All the time they (liberals) do this, Satan has a big smile on his face.

 

[freeatlast]

So the Church (and members thereof) are not part of Christ's Kingdom?

Wow.

You are correct. Church menbers are not part of the Kingdom. The Kingdom is to come. Look at what we call the Lord's prayer. This is all future. The kingdom is not yet here on earth.

 

[freeatlast]

We can read the Bible and see the way God set up the structure for the His Church. The liberal will delete or ignore or claim to read what is not there while insisting that it should be done their way because they think it is unfair the other way.

They (liberals) forget that is is not about them it is about God! They will slander the word by saying those who follow it are racist, bigoted, legalistic, or worse. (they may be these things but not because they believe the Bible). They (liberals) continue to try to change the Church by what they think while ignoring what God has simply set forth in His word.

All the time they (liberals) do this, Satan has a big smile on his face.

John what you say is so true. The blessing is to come when we see the Lord put down all this rebellion even in the claimed church.

 

[Baptist Believer]

You are correct. Church menbers are not part of the Kingdom. The Kingdom is to come. Look at what we call the Lord's prayer. This is all future. The kingdom is not yet here on earth.

That certainly seems to go against Jesus sending his disciples out to announce the Kingdom, not to mention Christ's plain announcement that the Kingdom of God is within us (Luke 17:20-21).

The kingdoms of the world are passing away, but the Kingdom of God is a reality now (on earth) and is eternal.

How else could people lay hold of it (Matthew 11:2)?

 

[jaigner]

If you see Christ's kingdom here on earth then you stay here. I want to go to the real thing.

Uh...it's called inaugurated eschatology. Already, but not yet. The Church on earth is the "already" part. Christ's coming Kingdom, which, by the way is coming here, is the "not yet" part that will be the consummation of peace forevermore.

I love the words to the gloria patri.

World without end,
Amen! Amen!

 

[freeatlast]

That certainly seems to go against Jesus sending his disciples out to announce the Kingdom, not to mention Christ's plain announcement that the Kingdom of God is within us (Luke 17:20-21).

The kingdoms of the world are passing away, but the Kingdom of God is a reality now (on earth) and is eternal.

How else could people lay hold of it (Matthew 11:2)?

The kingdom is at hand, but not here. No the kingdom of God is not here. This is satans kingdom right now. That will change.

 

[Baptist Believer]

The kingdom is at hand, but not here. No the kingdom of God is not here. This is satans kingdom right now. That will change.

Satan's kingdom is certainly around us, but we are not a part of it. God's Kingdom is also here, and we are a part of it.

"For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son..." - Colossians 1:13

 

[freeatlast]

Satan's kingdom is certainly around us, but we are not a part of it. God's Kingdom is also here, and we are a part of it.

"For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son..." - Colossians 1:13

Like I said. You stay here in this kingdom and I will go to the real one.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Like I said. You stay here in this kingdom and I will go to the real one.

You seem to be missing the point here. By affirming the scripture that the Kingdom of God is already present (and yes, I am part of that Kingdom, no matter what you might want to think), you are NOT necessarily providing me with any legitimacy.

I'm very concerned that your desire to prove me wrong is overwhelming your need to affirm a wonderful truth here in God's word.

The word of God is more important than my reputation or ego. It needs to be the same with you.

 

[tinytim]

Unless you are part of the kingdom now, you won't be in the future kingdom.

The Kingdom is another name for the Church.

The ignorance of Baptists continue to amaze me. Doesn't anyone due proper hermeneutics anymore?

Doesn't people understand the essentials verses non-essentials of our faith.

Women pastors are non-essential. It may be enough to separate over, but not enough to say someone is a false teacher.

We have plenty of women pastors in our denomination, and the more hogwash, and bad theology I hear from the people that doesn't believe in them, the more I am wondering if they are wrong on those issues, what makes me think they are right on this one!...

If God calls a woman to pastor, she had better pastor.
If he calls someone to not listen to a woman pastor, they had better not listen.

BTW, for those of you that don't believe in women preachers, explain Philip's daughters.
I have yet to see that one explained away, considering the Bible says they prophesied...which is equivalent to preaching.

 

[freeatlast]

You seem to be missing the point here. By affirming the scripture that the Kingdom of God is already present (and yes, I am part of that Kingdom, no matter what you might want to think), you are NOT necessarily providing me with any legitimacy.

I'm very concerned that your desire to prove me wrong is overwhelming your need to affirm a wonderful truth here in God's word.

The word of God is more important than my reputation or ego. It needs to be the same with you.

It is not about winning an argument. It is about correctly stating truth. You will find posts of mine where I admit I am wrong when backed up with scripture. I though I did give some support. By the way this is way off track with the OP. However we are not part of the kingdom since the kingdom is not here. The kingdom is in us, not us in the kingdom.

And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

We do not seek anything here on earth. Our seeking is from above it is not here. We enter into the kingdom in spirit not in flesh.

Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God.

This is not the kingdom. That is why I said you say in this kingdom and I will go to the real one. This is satans kingdom. He is the ruler of this world. (2Cor 4:4) God has some of His kingdom dwellers in this kingdom even though we are not yet living in His kingdom.

But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

Notice the kingdom came to them. It was not and is not here. It is not with observation. In other words it is not in this place. We carry the kingdom. We do not reside in the kingdom it resides in us and we take it to the world.

 

[jaigner]

By the way, I never said people who wrested those scriptures were intentionally being unfaithful to the bible. I have no doubt they are very sincere. But, that doesn't change the fact that they are taking these scriptures and are wresting them from their clear meaning. That isn't being faithful to the bible, no matter how sincere the person may be. You and I are not at liberty to do what we want with scripture.

Hey, I'm not mad or anything, I'm just pointing out that this is not an essential of the faith. We're not at liberty to do what we want, which is not at all what I am doing. We cannot go straight from reading to application. We must interpret along the way.

 

[stilllearning]

I am a late comer to this thread, but by the time I arrived, 8 people have said that women can be a senior pastor, 11 have said they can be an associate pastor, and 13 have said they can be a deacon and/or teach men in Church.

Is this so hard to understand??........
1 Timothy 2:12
“But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.”

 

[freeatlast]

I am a late comer to this thread, but by the time I arrived, 8 people have said that women can be a senior pastor, 11 have said they can be an associate pastor, and 13 have said they can be a deacon and/or teach men in Church.

Is this so hard to understand??........
1 Timothy 2:12
“But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.”

stilllearning, it is not about not understanding it. It IS about not believing it.

 

[jaigner]

Is this so hard to understand??........
1 Timothy 2:12
“But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.”

It's not hard to understand the text. It is hard to interpret it. We have to do so before we apply it. There is nothing more dangerous than applying the Bible before interpreting it.