Women are Not to Teach or Usurp Authority...

[Jerome]

John Calvin taught in Institutes, IV.10.29-30 that

"the hours set apart for public prayer, sermon, and solemn services; during sermon, quiet and silence, fixed places, singing of hymns, days set apart for the celebration of the Lord’s Supper, the prohibition of Paul against women teaching in the Church, and such like....things of this nature are not necessary to salvation, and, for the edification of the Church, should be accommodated to the varying circumstances of each age and nation, it will be proper, as the interest of the Church may require, to change and abrogate the old, as well as to introduce new forms. I confess, indeed, that we are not to innovate rashly or incessantly, or for trivial causes. Charity is the best judge of what tends to hurt or to edify: if we allow her to be guide, all things will be safe....these are not fixed and perpetual obligations to which we are astricted....in those matters the custom and institutions of the country...declare what is to be done or avoided."

 

[Ascetic X]

John Calvin taught in Institutes, IV.10.29-30 that

"… the prohibition of Paul against women teaching in the Church, and such like....things of this nature are not necessary to salvation, and, for the edification of the Church, should be accommodated to the varying circumstances of each age and nation, it will be proper, as the interest of the Church may require, to change and abrogate the old, as well as to introduce new forms. …. these are not fixed and perpetual obligations to which we are astricted....in those matters the custom and institutions of the country...declare what is to be done or avoided."

You can keep quoting the opinions of men, but we are obligated to conform to the teaching of scripture.

Calvin was wrong about many things and this quote is a good example of a man exalting “the varying circumstances of each age and nation” above what the Bible plainly states.

He is in error to state that “the custom and institutions of the country … declare what is to be done or avoided.”

No, the Bible declares what is to be done or avoided.

 

[Jerome]

Charles Bray Williams, like Pierson a contributor to The Fundamentals, in his A Commentary of the Pauline Epistles explains that "teaching in the spirit of humility and subordination is not prohibited by Paul", "women preaching in the churches [can] maintain the spirit of subordination. Example...Mrs. J. M. Dawson, Washington, D.C., who has been for several years an eloquent and effective speaker in Baptist churches"

[Williams (1869–1952) was the founding Professor of Greek and New Testament Interpretation at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary]

 

[Kai]

David if you are the one teaching and leading the group as these women were doing then you do not need to call yourself the pastor as it is just a title.

Silver, you’re looking at this in a way that's far too simplistic and surface-level. Being a pastor goes way beyond holding a title—it's about keeping a close watch on souls and maintaining church discipline. There just aren't any documented examples in Scripture of women serving in these specific pastoral functions.

 

[Jerome]

W. A. Criswell: The Authorized Biography, the Story of a Courageous and Uncompromising Christian Leader [1973]:

"His wife...teaches a couples' Sunday-school class at the church"

Mrs. Criswell's 2006 obituary in Baptist Press:

"Betty Criswell came to Dallas in 1944 when her husband became First Baptist’s pastor. W.A. Criswell, a key figure in the SBC’s conservative resurgence and its emphasis on biblical inerrancy, was named pastor emeritus in 1994; he died in 2002 at the age of 92."

"Betty Criswell, who led her 9:30 a.m. Sunday School class in studies throughout the books of the Old and New Testament, last taught on July 9....a Sunday school class attended by 200 to 300 people and broadcast on radio throughout the region"

 

[Jerome]

Charles Spurgeon preaching from Romans 16 (v. 3 "Priscilla and Aquila"):

This couple appears to have been advanced Christians, for they became instructors of others—and not merely teachers of the ignorant, but teachers of those who already knew much of the Gospel, for they instructed young Apollos—an eloquent man and mighty in the Scriptures. They taught him the way of God more perfectly and therefore we may be sure were deep-taught Christians themselves.

I should not wonder but he put them in order according to quality rather than according to the rule of sex. He named Priscilla, first, because she was first in energy of character and attainments in Divine Grace. There is a precedence which, in Christ, is due to the woman when she becomes the leader in devotion and manifests the stronger mind in the things of God. It is well when Nature and Grace both authorize our saying, “Aquila and Priscilla,” but it is not amiss when Grace outruns Nature and we hear of, “Priscilla and Aquila.”

 

[Silverhair]

You really haven't been out much then have you? Every Independent-Fundamental Baptist church I have ever been a part of was adamantly anti-Calvinist and adamantly against women preachers under any circumstance.

Well since I not make a habit of going around to other churches I really do not know what they think.

 

[Silverhair]

That seems to be an unusual definition of a pastor. Teachers of children in a Sunday School class are teaching a group from the word of God, but that doesn't make all Sunday School teachers pastors.

But it does make them a shepherd.

pastor /păs′tər/
noun
A Christian minister or priest having spiritual charge over a congregation or other group.
A layperson having spiritual charge over a person or group.
A shepherd.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 5th Edition

The church has chosen to use the term pastor and to invest it with a special restrictive meaning but the bible does not do that.

b. metaphorically, ...of the overseers of the Christian assemblies (A. V. pastors), Eph_4:11
Thayer's Unabridged Greek - english Lexicon

 

[Silverhair]

Silver, you’re looking at this in a way that's far too simplistic and surface-level. Being a pastor goes way beyond holding a title—it's about keeping a close watch on souls and maintaining church discipline. There just aren't any documented examples in Scripture of women serving in these specific pastoral functions.

I have not restricted the duties that the pastor/shepherd has and all those duties would have been carried out by the female missionaries and also the women that God has placed in that position now.

To say women were not mentioned in that position when you consider the culture of the time is really not surprising.

But I am not alone in my understanding.

Prominent Christian egalitarians

Greg Boyd, theologian and Senior Pastor of the Woodland Hills Church in St. Paul, Minnesota
F. F. Bruce, biblical scholar and professor of biblical criticism and exegesis
Shane Claiborne
Gordon Fee, contributing editor to Discovering Biblical Equality (2004)
George Fox
Stanley Grenz
Trevor Huddleston
Eddie L. Hyatt, D.Min
Craig S. Keener, author of Paul, Women and Wives (1992)
I. Howard Marshall, New Testament scholar and Professor of New Testament exegesis at The University of Aberdeen
Roger Nicole, emeritus professor of theology at Reformed Theological Seminary, Orlando, Florida.
Roger Olson, professor of theology at George W. Truett Theological Seminary of Baylor University
Carroll D. Osburn, professor of New Testament language and literature at Abilene Christian University
Joseph Parker, author of The People's Bible
Frank Stagg, co-author of Woman in the World of Jesus (1978)
Ben Witherington III, professor of New Testament interpretation at Asbury Theological Seminary
N.T. Wright
wikipedia.org

I have always understood that God has and will continue to use those He chooses to carry His plan forward. If that means you want to call me an Egalitarian so be it.

I am just not comfortable telling God what He can and cannot do.

PS

Egalitarianism in church history has roots dating back to the Reformation and has been present in various forms since the 16th century. AI response

So it is not a new view.

 

[Salty]

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