Women aren't second-class believers

[Abiyah]

Originally posted by Frank:
Elnora:

What constitutes abuse? By what standard do you make this judgment? Does that change I Cor. 11:3 and Ephesians 5? If so, how? And, book, chapter and verse, please. Your argument is without biblical foundation. There is no divine inspired evidence to support your assertion.

Frank --

Are you suggesting that a woman is to stay with an
abusive husband and just take it? I don't think you
are sayig that, but I would like clarification, if you
would.

Obviously, the Bible does not broach spousal
abuse directly, but it does tell us what a true
marriage is and how we are to treat one another
in such a relationship. The Bible also takes
covenants very seriously, and in today's marriage
covenants, and in today's marriage covenants,
the promises are to love, honor, and cherish. When
a spouse breaks that promise by abuse, has she
or he not been unfaithful to that covenant? How is
the other one obligated to stay in such a
relationship?

When I first head of divorce as a little girl, I thought
it was a wonderful concept and hoped my father
would think of it, but he didn't. Thigs would have
been far, far different, if he had.

 

[Eladar]

Are you suggesting that a woman is to stay with an
abusive husband and just take it? I don't think you
are sayig that, but I would like clarification, if you
would.

That is pretty much what the Bible says.

 

[Abiyah]

Originally posted by Abiyah:

The Bible says that the husband is the
head of the wife; who, then, is head of
the husband? If the husband has
followed the mandates of the Word,
then our Lord is the head of him,
making the Lord the head of the house.

I wrote earlier in this thread that I
would not want to be in a house in
which our Lord was not the Head
of the home.

Quote by Eladar

Yes, if the husband is a Christian, then God will be the head. Yet I don't see that distinction being made. No where do I see it written that the husband is only to be the head if he is a Christian. Quite the contrary, it seems to be a blanket statement for all husbands.

I agree that Christians should be married to other Christians.

I am sorry, Eladar, but it just looks to me like
you just want to argue, not debate.
Who are we? We are believers.
To whom are we writing? Believers.

Non-believers do not give two hoots what the
Word says.

 

[Abiyah]

Originally posted by Eladar:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Are you suggesting that a woman is to stay with an
abusive husband and just take it? I don't think you
are sayig that, but I would like clarification, if you
would.

That is pretty much what the Bible says. </font>[/QUOTE]Oh! May our God forgive you.

 

[Curly Fries]

Originally posted by Eladar:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Are you suggesting that a woman is to stay with an
abusive husband and just take it? I don't think you
are sayig that, but I would like clarification, if you
would.

That is pretty much what the Bible says. </font>[/QUOTE]Could you please list a few Bible passages that support what you say?
As far as I know from reading the Bible, Christian wife is free, in certain situations, to leave an unbelieving husband. I do not believe a husband that goes on abusing his wife is a Christian.

 

[Gina B]

The bible says to care for our bodies. Staying with someone who is injuring you is not a biblical concept. You can stay married and not live with an abuser.
You are also OBLIGATED to keep children safe and cared for. An abuser often goes after the children too, or they get caught in the middle and hurt.
Do what God wants you to do. Keep your children and yourself safe from harm or you're violating the scriptures.
Gina

 

[Carson Weber]

Great post, Gina!

 

[Eladar]

Could you please list a few Bible passages that support what you say?
As far as I know from reading the Bible, Christian wife is free, in certain situations, to leave an unbelieving husband. I do not believe a husband that goes on abusing his wife is a Christian.

Would you please site the passage that states a woman is to leave her husband based on physical abuse. There is one for sexual immorality, but not for abuse.

As a matter of fact, Paul writes that her husband may change his ways after seeing her example.

As far as God being against physical abuse goes, try reading how God instructed the Israelites to treat their slaves. There was a limitation on the amount of abuse, but there was quite a bit of abuse allowed.

 

[Abiyah]

I seriously think I am going to be sick, Eladar.
Reading your answer literally put me on the brink
of losing my lunch.

This is a TEACHER in our schools!

At this time in my life, I do not need this. Not
right now. Not this week.

When I see your posts in this thread, Eladar, as a
kindness toward you, I will skip them, because
with what I have been through this week, I could
write regrettable things.

 

[Eladar]

I seriously think I am going to be sick, Eladar.
Reading your answer literally put me on the brink
of losing my lunch.

I'm sorry that you have a problem with this part of scripture. Do you have the same reaction to Jesus' statement that when one is struck one should simply turn the other cheek(to be struck again)?

 

[Curly Fries]

Originally posted by Eladar:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Could you please list a few Bible passages that support what you say?
As far as I know from reading the Bible, Christian wife is free, in certain situations, to leave an unbelieving husband. I do not believe a husband that goes on abusing his wife is a Christian.

Would you please site the passage that states a woman is to leave her husband based on physical abuse. There is one for sexual immorality, but not for abuse.

As a matter of fact, Paul writes that her husband may change his ways after seeing her example.

As far as God being against physical abuse goes, try reading how God instructed the Israelites to treat their slaves. There was a limitation on the amount of abuse, but there was quite a bit of abuse allowed. </font>[/QUOTE]I will give you a quote later, I do not have my Bible here.

Interesting, that you are referring to the Old Testament as a support for allowing (a little bit of) abuse. Didn't Law of Moses allow for divorce? What did Jesus say about that particular law?

 

[Eladar]

Jesus said that divorce was allowable, but not good. Does this point of view accurately describe all of the Law?

I don't think so.

What are your thoughts on turning the other cheek?

 

[Curly Fries]

Originally posted by Eladar:
Jesus said that divorce was allowable, but not good. Does this point of view accurately describe all of the Law?

I don't think so.

What are your thoughts on turning the other cheek?

OK, the idea of "allowable" things is new to me. As a Christian I usually strive at what is good and perfect. I pay little attention to the "allowable".

So if abuse is allowable but not good, according to you, why cannot an abused wife divorce an abusive husband -- isn't divorce allowable (although not good).

 

[Eladar]

You haven't answered my question about turning the other cheek.

 

[Curly Fries]

Originally posted by Eladar:
You haven't answered my question about turning the other cheek.

What was that question about specifically?
"Turning the other cheek" is a huge subject.

 

[Eladar]

Jesus said that if someone physically abuses you, you are to turn the other cheek so that the abuse may continue.

What are your thoughts?

 

[Curly Fries]

Originally posted by Eladar:
Jesus said that if someone physically abuses you, you are to turn the other cheek so that the abuse may continue.

What are your thoughts?

What are your thoughts about it? Do you always turn the other cheek when someone abuses you? Should someone who is being abused over and over again keep turning the other cheek?

BTW, "so that abuse may continue" sounds a bit strange. It looks like an unfortunate choice of words.

 

[Eladar]

What are your thoughts about it? Do you always turn the other cheek when someone abuses you? Should someone who is being abused over and over again keep turning the other cheek?

BTW, "so that abuse may continue" sounds a bit strange. It looks like an unfortunate choice of words.

What do you think Jesus meant by turn the other cheek? It seems rather clear to me that it so that the person can strike you again. In other words, so that the physical abuse can continue.

My perspective is that what happens to us is not important. It is how we react that is important. Jesus teaches peace, which in this world means being walked all over.

God will take care of us. If that means by death, as in Stephen's case, so be it.

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by Eladar:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Several of my relatives are police officers and tell me that they have never seen a man who beats his wife who would ever do the same with another man. They tell me these men are cowards.

A rather secular view you hold for being a man of God. The real problem should be the fact that they are acting in a way that demonstrates a heart that is not God's, even if such a person would beat up men too.

I guess some sin is more socially acceptable than others. </font>[/QUOTE]I guess you don't seem to understand that many I have known attended church every Sunday. One I knew whose husband was in seminary.

If these men will not use self control then perhaps they need to fall under the control of the police to wake them up.

Any woman who will allow herself to be abused will noit help the man to face the facts. Many of these men continue to blame the troubles on their woves and not accept responsibility for their actions.

Sometime you need to take a trip to a woman's shelter and listen to them and then see some of the pictures of battered women. Then take a visit to the district attorney's office. Sometime sit in a counseling session with a woman who has had her face mangled and her head split open. You may think it really doesn't happem because you are so sheltered from it and ignorant of such abuse. I grew up in a home that was hell on earth where my dad beat my mom regularly. We attended church every Sunday. Once the police came to the house and did nothing. My dad still didn't stop. When I got older, on one occasion I told him if he ever did it again he would face me and wouldn't like what he got. That was when he stopped. He never hit her again. I have scars on my body because of the abuse. It has cost me money over the years to take care of some of the physical maladies as a result. Thank God that I had a pastor years ago ago and have a loving wife who understands and has helped me tremendously through some of those.When I got married I told my wife that if I were hit her to call the police immediately. I has cost me a lot emotionally to get past so many of those things I have had to deal with too.

Just imagine if you will the person who is suppose to love you now abuses you. What kind of relationship is that.

When I was pastoring almost every week I received phone calls from women who were abused and beaten. One time there was a lady who called and she was beaten so badly that when I saw her she did not even look like the same person. She was black and blue all over. Her arm was broken one inch below her shoulder. To this day she is in physical pain because of the abuse. The police took him into custody and he was out within a short time. After he returned home he continued his temper tantrums again and again. And yes they were in church every Sunday.

The point I was making is that men who beat their wives would never do the same thing to another man. They in fact are cowards. These men must be put in a situation where their behavior will not be tolerated.

I am amazed at how much your ignorance abounds. Are you suggesting that the church just sweep it under the rug and allow that kind of abuse to go on. Just ask a counselor what denominations have the most spousal abuse. You will be very surprised at what you will hear.

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by Eladar:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />What are your thoughts about it? Do you always turn the other cheek when someone abuses you? Should someone who is being abused over and over again keep turning the other cheek?

BTW, "so that abuse may continue" sounds a bit strange. It looks like an unfortunate choice of words.

What do you think Jesus meant by turn the other cheek? It seems rather clear to me that it so that the person can strike you again. In other words, so that the physical abuse can continue.

My perspective is that what happens to us is not important. It is how we react that is important. Jesus teaches peace, which in this world means being walked all over.

God will take care of us. If that means by death, as in Stephen's case, so be it. </font>[/QUOTE]So are you saying that when Hitler came into power that what the rest of the world should have done was to overlook the Holocaust and just let it go on? Is that the kind of God you know? Is the kind of God you know one who does not uphold the righteous and help those who stand against injustices?

Are you also saying that if two of your students get into a fight you would stand by and pray and let them slug it out? If there was one who was a bully would you tell the other student to "turn the other cheek?" You have displayed a gross misunderstanding by your ignorance of that saying in scripture. You need to do some studying before you try to perpetuate your ignorance.