Women of polygamist retreat speak out

Bingo........

 

I live in the town where this is going on.
There is a difference between a kid wanting to marry and being forced to. The mothers forcing the kids to marry, will then lose the children. It doesn't matter if it is part of their religion. It doens't matter what Joe Smith taught. God says to obey the law. God does not ok multiple marriages in the NT. He in fact says to remain true to the wife of your youth, not wives.
This group blatantly disobeyed the laws of the land, and the laws of God.

This compound has been a concern to this area for years, and it has been watched. Law enforcement didn't go in until some one (as far as they know a teen not wanting to be married to the older man) called. There was no blood shed, and still people are not happy. I have nothing against the LDS, but they are subject to the same laws as I am.

 

I too have a set of grandparents who married young. My grandfather was all of 17 and my grandmother all of 14 when they married. She was 15 when she birthed her first baby. My grandfather even made the girls quit school after the 6th grade to stay home and help with the younger kids and learn to run a home (they helped pick cotton too) because girls in that day grew up to be wives not workers. (we're talking 30's and 40's timewise)

But I can tell you that not a one of their 14 children got married before they turned 18 and that includes the 6 girls. Somewhere along the line, Grandpa decided that marrying young wasn't all it was cracked up to be. By the time the younger 3 girls came along, he no longer forced them to quit school at 6th grade but gave them the choice of whether they wanted to continue. Marrying was done by choice!

The reason society frowns on younger teens getting married is that we've learned at least a little from our mistakes.

Do I feel sorry for these women because they no longer have access to their children? yes, but it's because they were allowed to grow up themselves in this environment and there was no one to protect them. That is where the gov't failed. If they had stopped the polygamy years ago we wouldn't have this situation now.

Oh, and it has been suggested that the interviews of these ladies were so similar to one another that those reporters doing the interviews wondered if they had been rehearsed. Am I going to take the word of an admitted lawbreaker (polygamy is still a crime) or the gov'ts. In this case, I'm siding with the authorities. (link to suggestion of rehersal: http://fieldnotes.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/04/15/892513.aspx )

 

You know something...... We live in a 'Christian' country, where 'Christians' are supposed to believe and follow the true book ...... the Bible. But we set up laws which veer from the sovereignty of God and the wisdom of the Bible.... then we say our critics are wrong.... when they judge us by the Bible and complain that we don't obey.

One is our quick acceptance of 'hearsay' and conviction in the courtroom of public opinion before we KNOW for a fact that something is true. Is this something we would tolerate with our own? How much more should we be careful to defend a cautious approach to suspicion and allegation when it concerns another, or better, stay neutral until the facts are known? The Bible states 'in the mouth of two wittnesses'....but we rush to judgement, based upon our bias....

Our bias? you say.... Yes. We already have a bias against those who follow a different god, practice a different religion, dress a different way, live a different lifestyle, eat a different diet, in other words.... aren't like us. WE call them names; they are 'nuts'.

What we need is to WAKE UP..... and start considering our country and the treatment of law and judgement in light of the LAW OF THE LAND which is the Constitution.... This is the law of our governance. It is not a perfect law.... but it follows as closely as any which could be created by man that would still support OUR peaceful existance among others of different beliefs. It protects us from the tranny of others... and they from the tyranny of us.

If someone alleges a criminal report regarding a member of my church, or of a family in my church.... would that justify the government rounding up and separating the men from the women and the mothers from the children?

What determines a marriage anymore?

We have laws of licensure which originated with identification and permission for marriage between the races. It later involved blood test and permission from the state to get married was promoted as a health issue. Well, the blood test is no longer required but we are still making a contract with the state for marriage, when it is an ordinance of God and the state has no place in determining who the church recognizes as married and who it does not....

But our thinking is so far removed from this aspect that we depend upon 'the states' permission .........and expect 'the states' protection of the family and the sanctity of marriage ..... not realizing 'the state' is made up of fallen men, judging by man made laws, and the protections given us by those laws are easily changed with a stroke of a pen...... hence we have increasing divorce, homosexlual unions, redefining of 'the family', the state assuming they are the protectors of children..... and the perception that humanity is a 'resource' of the nation.

"The state" which was supposed to protect the sanctity and privacy of the home, has..... through our own delegation of power and our own recognition of their authority by petitioning for license .... has allowed the state to presumed upon our rights of how and what our children are taught, invade the privacy of our home, determine our worthiness to be parents, ask our children any questions without our permission or representation present.... etc., etc..

In regard to the afore mentioned marriage 'license'..... marriages prior to this took on legal significance and recognition by being 'recorded' in the public records of that day before 'a license' came into being.

 

That has to be almost the dumbest thing I have ever heard. My brother is in Eldorado, he is working with these children and he tells me everything that is being done is being done for the welfare of the children. The mere size of the investigation is creating problems. The state is bringing in investigators from all over the state to help. Both APS (Adult protective) and CPS workers are on site. Sure, the mothers are upset; their children are in the States care. Nevertheless, the state workers are more concerned that these children are in safe places, than they are of upsetting the mothers.

I am the biggest critic of CPS that I know. Having had my niece and nephew live with me for a year because my sister in law wanted drugs more than she wanted to care for her kids. I know how this system works or don’t work as the case may be. However, when there is a complaint of abuse the first step is securing the child’s safety first. Then while the child is safe, you investigate. If even one child was harmed and we found out that a call had been made, everyone would be jumping on the State for not acting soon enough, now folks are saying the state acted too soon. I say if taking these children saved even one from abuse then it was the right move.

 

Let the state do its work. Why must we judge either in the courts of our opinion before we know the facts?

 

If a child is in the middle of a harem, meaning there are two mommies married to one daddy, that should be enough grounds to remove them temporarily to access the situation. Yet we have even more grounds... Living in a compound, being isolated from social interaction with the outside world. This only adds to the grounds to pull the kids and access their situation for 24-48 hours. I can't imagine anyone balking at governmental intervention to to ensure the children's safety in this case.

 

I agree. After the Jim Jones and Waco disasters, you can't blame the government for getting touchy about these situations. Better to be too careful than not careful enough.

 

I agree.. all children living in polygamist compounds wherever...should be removed!

Brainwashing is abuse.
LDS compounds are breeding grounds for abuse... (literally)

 

I agree! These people who are there to care for the children need our prayers.

 

You know something? If the current laws and courts of our country had more respect for the Bible and were based upon Biblical justice..... I might feel more content to get in this fight and side with the government in its raid and total upset and separation of a community based upon a called in complaint.......

However,
I see so much compromise of standards within our own communities:
A child with 2 mommies? It's legal in society now.... Ask Rosie O'Donnel. Two 'moms' or two 'dads' may adopt, in some places, or have their own children and its called a 'family' by some people within our communities and government.

A immigrant who settles into our country and brings wives which he 'married' under another nation's laws..... probably would be accepted with his wives, and their children....if he and they met the other conditions of admission.

Our own divorce rate, shacking up without marriage, repeated marriages after divorce, practiced infidelity and swinging groups: the instability of the home in which children are raised in our lawful societ......now aint that some standard to compare with the abuse that went on in this compound? Do we know for a fact that 'alleged' poligamy is worse?

Were they exposing the kids to pornography....like happens in some of the homes in America today? Were they alllowed to play, or did they sit entertained like zombies over nientendo games? Were they fed a balanced diet? Were they healthy and free of disease and parasites? Were they clothed? Were they given an education and learning reading, writing, and mathematics? Were they beaten, tortured, starved and broken for disobediance? Or is the crime, that they had a system of beliefs on which they based their lifestyle, which was consistent and stable for them but is disagreeable with our own beliefs, and values? No doubt they are a 'cult': But where does the constitution give the right to judge it?

Any 'religion' which removes God from his throne and substitues man is a cult..... but do we judge our government? Any group which cocoons itself, and cloakes itself in secrecy, and monitors its members, and controls them, and punishes them if they veer from 'the establishments' norms for behavior and communication .....is a cult:

But isn't our own government already doing the same thing to us? Oh, but of course it isn't! But it is increasingly monitoring of its own citizens, and creating instruments like the RFID whereby a data base of accumulated information can be gathered and is available to all entities having access to the system whether its your state, a state on the other side of the country, or, even, a country across the seas.... who has a treaty with our own country for such exchanges.

Who ever heard of a 'passport' being required to enter a Federal building... or to board an airplane within our own country and travel without exiting..... well, soon.... if you accept the new drivers license, you will be submitting sufficient uniquely 'you' God designed bio-identification of pictures, or fingerprints, or some similarly confirming and unique information, under which a file of information is created:

You will have no control on what goes into its database and what does not: It is not restricted to moving violations: It is designed to include sufficient financial data on you and your income and credit, to be of assistance when making a financial transaction: It is design to carry sufficient medical information on you to be a resource for health care and medical treatment; You have no control over who submits data under your identity, nor do you have access to what is kept on file about you, nor any assurrance that you can correct erroneous information.

All computer systems and electronic voting systems have not been hacker-proof: In other words, it is very possible, and probable....if you are active in any way in standing up for your rights, or the constitution, or for Jesus, or for gun ownership, or for any thing which politically disagrees with a current administration, a criminal charge can be 'alledged' against you, and, without your knowing or privilege to, supporting information planted in your data base to support a judgement against you: Or used to threaten or coerc you to perform an action to which you would not agree otherwise.

Texas has its own laws regarding marriage, minors, etc.. It is perfectly within its rights to investigate and enforce them as it sees fit. The involvement of our government with a religious group is where a line goes gray. I'm not supporting sin: What I am advocating for is a very careful and thoughtful choice to think about what constitutional rights and obligations are involved....... esthetics, personal values and beliefs, etc. removed.

If we are not very careful and discerning what we support and why.... the very things which we agree with today, may be changed by law or consensus and bite us in the hiney tomorrow... when our support of the constitution would have protected us ...... and those who are different from us.

Edited to add: I believe this is the clearest I can express my concerns.... and the concern that others sleep through these concerns. I'm done.

 

This raid was not about polygamy, it was about children being abused.

 

Windcatcher, I take it you are concerned that the government could follow suit and interfere with Christian homes the way they did this religious compound? Surely you aren't condoning polygomy or forcing children to marry?!

Our government isn't perfect, and does overstep it bounds sometimes. That doesn't mean we have to wait for it to get perfect before we take action in a situation such as this one.

While our constitution guarantees religious freedom, we must remember our freedom stops when it infringes on someone else's. The muslims want to practice their religious freedom, but that doesn't give them the constitutional right to terrorize and blow up innocent people. Even devil worshippers can practice their craft, but if it involves human sacrifice of course we would expect the gov't to step in. In this case, freedom of religion doesn't include child abuse. Since abuse is suspected, and rightly so, the proper authorities have taken action.

I wouldn't mind debating this further, but we are already over the 3-page limit.

 

What exactly do we want to happen when children are being abused? Do we leave them in their abusive situations?

 

No, Donna,

When the police get a call from a person they don't already know, telling them that you are abusing your children....they show up at your door with a swat team, they bust up your family into different transports, then conduct their investigations and interogations.... and no one has legal counsel provided.....least of all the minors: Normally a parent has the right to be present in the questioning of a juvenile EXCEPT when child abuse is alledged: But even then... parents should have the right to have legal counsel to represent them in absentia to see that the interrogation is not leading or coercive, or suggestive or manipulates a child into making a false statement.

But this subject is like a western hanging..... Alledged...... Guilty......Hang Em!

Forcing a minor or any person into an unwanted marriage or relationship IS abuse.
A child living in a multi adult household where all females are affectionately referred to as 'mommies' and all adult males are referred to as 'daddies' .....may prove confusing later when the child knows better, but does not constitute 'abuse'.

 

Its actually Warren Jeffs. Now, I have heard that this group might be an offshoot of the Mormon church, so I guess they might be followers of Joseph Smith in a secondary way.

But its so bizzare to watch. It appears from the women they interviewed on Larry King that they have a picture of Warren Jeff in every room. And the way the women talk is so strange. It just seems very much like they have been brainwashed.

And those strange "uniform like" dresses they all have on. The weird hairstyles, etc (maybe hairstyles from the 1800's?)

And where are the men??? Why are they not there, wanting their children back??

So strange.

Mike

 

I'm sorry they do have legal counsel, saw it on tv, there are over 400 lawyers apponited, to children and adults.
So, apparenlty, since you have defended these people's right to do so, you support sex abuse.

When it comes to reporting child abuse you do not have to give your name.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24199519/

Humm, they do have legal counsel it seems.

 

This was in our state baptist newspaper this week.

http://www.westernrecorder.org/wr/wrsite.nsf/stories/200816-Sect