Women Pastors?

[Tea]

There’s been an ongoing discussion within the Southern Baptist Convention about the question of whether women should be permitted to serve as pastors in churches.

1 Timothy 2:12 (ESV)
I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.

Most Baptists and conservative evangelicals understand this passage to mean that women are not allowed to take a position of authority over a man in the church. Others interpret it as meaning that a woman could serve as a pastor if male leadership granted her that authority.

Which view is correct, and why?

 

[Scarlett O.]

I believe that men should be pastors over a church, but not because men are better in any way, shape, or form than women. You know - intellectually, spiritually, physically, morally, etc.

There's my thought and I won't be back to this thread as this topic gets kind of......hurtful.

Discuss away.

 

[Reynolds]

There’s been an ongoing discussion within the Southern Baptist Convention about the question of whether women should be permitted to serve as pastors in churches.

1 Timothy 2:12 (ESV)
I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.

Most Baptists and conservative evangelicals understand this passage to mean that women are not allowed to take a position of authority over a man in the church. Others interpret it as meaning that a woman could serve as a pastor if male leadership granted her that authority.

Which view is correct, and why?

How can you be a pastor who does not teach?

 

[Tea]

How can you be a pastor who does not teach?

Some believe there is a loophole that could allow the male leadership to grant a woman the authority to teach.

Priscilla did teach other women and children; the problem lies in a woman taking the authority for herself in a church setting. However, if the men allow it, she could also teach the men as well.

 

[xlsdraw]

Some believe there is a loophole that could allow the male leadership to grant a woman the authority to teach.

Priscilla did teach other women and children; the problem lies in a woman taking the authority for herself in a church setting. However, if the men allow it, she could also teach the men as well.

There are no loopholes in the Word of God. There are, however, plenty who rebel against the Word of God.

 

[Reynolds]

Some believe there is a loophole that could allow the male leadership to grant a woman the authority to teach.

Priscilla did teach other women and children; the problem lies in a woman taking the authority for herself in a church setting. However, if the men allow it, she could also teach the men as well.

Some people try to make a loophole where none exists.

 

[Reformed]

There’s been an ongoing discussion within the Southern Baptist Convention about the question of whether women should be permitted to serve as pastors in churches.

1 Timothy 2:12 (ESV)
I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.

Most Baptists and conservative evangelicals understand this passage to mean that women are not allowed to take a position of authority over a man in the church. Others interpret it as meaning that a woman could serve as a pastor if male leadership granted her that authority.

Which view is correct, and why?

We have to continue in that chapter to understand why women should not exercise authority over a man.

13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. 15 Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control.

The New King James Version (1 Ti 2:12–15). (1982). Thomas Nelson.

This is really a creation ordinance. Adam was created first. It was Adam who was charged by God to rule over the Garden:

15 Then the Lord God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to tend and keep it. 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” 18 And the Lord God said, “It is not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him.” 19 Out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them. And whatever Adam called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So Adam gave names to all cattle, to the birds of the air, and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper comparable to him.

The New King James Version (Ge 2:15–20). (1982). Thomas Nelson.

This is not a matter of "gender equality". Women are not inferior to men. Both sexes were created by a God of order with specific roles to play in society, the family, and in the church. Nothing good happens when we act contrary to God's design and purpose.

By the way, it's not a coincidence that most churches with female pastors are found in either liberal-progressive denominations (PCUSA, United Methodist Church, ABCUSA) or Pentecostal/Charismatic churches. These churches have either abandoned the sufficiency and authority of scripture and/or have apostatized completely.

 

[Ascetic X]

My first question is when did pastors usurp the other ministries in the church? We note that no church epistle is addressed to a pastor.

Ephesians 4:11 “And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;”

I Corinthians 12:28 “And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, and those with gifts of healing, helping, administration, and various tongues.”


If pastor means shepherd, perhaps a pastor might not teach, but be a counselor or organizer.

Since women have exercised authority over men when they served as warrior judges and prophetesses in the Bible, I theoretically thought they could be pastors or teachers.

Priscilla, a woman, and Aquila taught the man Apollos. Acts 18:26.

And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.

One interpretation is that the wife of a prophet should not teach, usurping the role of her husband.

a woman
γυναικὶ (gynaiki)
Noun - Dative Feminine Singular
Strong's 1135: A woman, wife, my lady. Probably from the base of ginomai; a woman; specially, a wife.


In Jewish tradition, teaching was primarily a male role, as seen in the synagogue system where rabbis were men. This phrase reflects the cultural norms of the time, where women were generally not educated in the same way as men. However, it is important to note that women did play significant roles in the early church, such as Priscilla, who, alongside her husband Aquila, taught Apollos (Acts 18:26).

But when I saw locally female pastors in action, it didn’t sit right with me. It seemed wrong and ineffective somehow. And as mentioned by Reformed, denominations that have female pastors, deacons, and bishops are also liberal, woke, embracing LGBTQ agendas and rarely preaching the gospel.

 

[Salty]

WE do know that Scripture teaches "The husband of one wife..."
If a woman has a wife..... well we wont go down that road!

 

[Jerome]

The SBC's Baptist Press just announced that Baptists in Texas elected Pastor Debbie Potter as their state convention President!

STATE MEETINGS: Texas (BGCT)

​

 

[atpollard]

Women Pastors?
No thank you.
[‘nuff said]

 

[Salty]

Women Pastors?
No thank you.
[‘nuff said]

Not good enough!!! Why not?

 

[atpollard]

Not good enough!!! Why not?

Same reason as I am not an apostle … Because it is not what she was created for.
God determines roles.

 

[Salty]

Same reason as I am not an apostle … Because it is not what she was created for.
God determines roles.

Let me be as specific as I can - what Scripture do you have to back up that a female should not be a pastor
and since you brought it up - what is the Scripture we are to have apostles in this generation.

 

[Ascetic X]

Apostle just means someone sent. Old English apostol, via ecclesiastical Latin from Greek apostolos ‘messenger’, from apostellein ‘send forth’.

Today they seem to be church planters or missionaries. I know of no scripture declaring apostles will cease to exist after the first century.

The lady Julia was called an apostle in Romans 16:7.

The woman Phoebe was called a deacon (minister, servant) in Romans 16:1.

Deborah was called a judge (military leader) and prophetess in Judges 4 and 5.

Yet, when I see a woman pastor in a local church, or a female bishop (Lutheran ELCA) I cannot feel right about it. Technically, I don’t oppose it, but subjectively, it seems weird and wrong.

But as a side note: I also don’t see why a pastor is considered the main leader of a church, when the New Testament lists apostles, evangelists, prophets, pastors and teachers as given to the church. I see one man, the pastor, take charge of every function of a church, and only rarely does anyone else give the Sunday lecture or lead any other function (prayer meeting, Bible study, evangelism, etc.).

 

[Jerome]

A.T. Pierson preaching at the Metropolitan Tabernacle, 1892:

[Hebrews 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.]

"This text, whatever may be its other value, is mainly of importance, because it indicates three tests of a genuine, God-sent leader. In the first place he speaks the word of God, in the second place his faith is fixed on a personal Saviour; and, in the third place, his life conforms to the Word of God and to the faith in Christ, and ends in a glorious immortality. Wherever we find those three indications meeting in any man or woman, we may recognize the heaven-sent leader, and it is at our peril if we do not follow such leadership." —A.T. Pierson

 

[atpollard]

The first, I leave to you (If you want a woman pastor, then place yourself under one … I am not your Pope, mother or the Holy Spirit). I do not believe that you are ignorant of verses on this subject and I was only asked for my opinion (“Women Pastors?”) which I gave.

what is the Scripture we are to have apostles in this generation.

I never claimed that we are to have apostles in this generation.

That said, in the OT God appeared to men and appointed them Prophets.
In the NT, Peter laid out the qualifications for replacing Judas with another apostle.
In the NT, Jesus appeared to Saul (post ascension) and appointed Paul an apostle.

What is the scripture that abrogates God’s ability to appoint a prophet or apostle in this generation?
So my position is “I know of no living apostles or prophets that God has appointed” and “I know of nothing that prohibits God from appointing a prophet or apostle in this generation if God were to choose to do so.”

I speculate that God has not created a new prophet or apostle because none are needed in this generation … but that is just speculation on my part.

 

[Jerome]

Professor Timothy Larson (Wheaton), Evangelicalism’s Strong History of Women in Ministry

"Women in public Christian ministry is a historic distinctive of evangelicalism....no other large branch of the Christian family has demonstrated as long and deep a commitment to affirming the public ministries of women – not theologically liberal traditions,...not Anglicanism or other mainline Protestant traditions. I am defining 'public ministry' as Christian service to adult believers – including men – that takes one or more of the following forms: preaching, teaching, pastoring, administering the sacraments and giving spiritual oversight."

"the first Calvinist denomination to arise from the evangelical revival was led by a woman, Selina, Countess of Huntingdon (1707-1791)....The denomination still exists today and still has as its official name 'the Countess of Huntingdon’s Connexion'."

"in conservative evangelicalism and fundamentalism in the late 19th and early 20th century....women were trained for public ministry by the theologically conservative Bible colleges. Moreover, women faculty members at these institutions taught Bible and theology....Official Moody Bible Institute publications proudly boasted about women graduates who went off to ordained ministry and to full-time, senior pastorates. A similar story can be told about Northwestern Bible School, an institution run by W. B. Riley (1861-1947), a towering fundamentalist leader in Minnesota."

"Edith C. Torrey...taught Bible at Wheaton from 1919 to 1958....Esther Sabel taught Bible at Bethel Seminary 1924-1958....institutions uncompromising in their affirmation of the inerrancy of Scripture and the power of the gospel to convert sinners. By way of contrast, Harvard Divinity School, a bastion of theological liberalism, did not even admit women students until 1955, let alone women faculty members."