NaasPreacher (C4K)
Well-Known Member
I disagree with your conclusion John - but you are right, our conclusions are no evidence of our knowledge.
But...you are still wrong on this issue
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But...you are still wrong on this issue
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Women Pastors
- Thread starter DeclareHim
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A
amixedupmom
Guest
AmenOriginally posted by RUGAL1:
I AM A NEW MEMBER OF BAPTIST BOARD AND I DO BELIEVE THAT THE LORD DREW ME TO THIS FORUM BECAUSE I AM HAVING A DIFFICULT TIME TRYING TO FIT IN AT THE BAPTIST CHURCH I AM GOING TO HERE IN ILLINOIS AND THEY HAVE THE SAME BELIEF THAT WOMEN SHOULD NOT BE PASTORS. WHEN IT SAYS THAT WOMEN SHOULD NOT HAVE AUTHORITY OVER MEN TO ME THAT SAYS IN THE RELATIONSHIP AT THE HOME. GOD CALLED US ALL TO PREACH THE GOSPEL TO EVERYONE. MY MOTHER WHO IS A METHODIST HAS BEEN AN ORDAINED MINISTER FOR ALMOST 3 YRS. AND HAS TAKEN A FULL TIME JOB AS PASTOR OF A METHODIST CHURCH IN ILLINOIS. WE ARE ALL EQUAL IN GOD'S EYES AND THAT'S HOW IT SHOULD BE IN OUR EYES ALSO. WE ARE ALL CALLED TO DIFFERENT AREAS IN OUR LIFE TO MINISTER SOMEHOW TO UNBELIEVERS DRAWING THEM TUR LORD AND SAVIOR.MY MOTHER WAS CALLED TO BE A MINISTER FOR A CHURCH AND SHE HAS OBEYED GOD'S CALLING AND I AM VERY PROUD OF HER.
Being equal in the sight of God has nothing to do with being equally suited for the offices of the Church. God specifically established the man/woman, husband/wife relationship from the beginning. Women are by no means "lesser" servants, but it is time that women stop trying (and crying) to do the job that God ordained as the man's responsibility, and it is time that men step up to their responsibilities as men! This is nowhere more evident than in the Church.
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amixedupmom
Guest
MTA just a slight question. What happens when the MEN don't respond to the call as a women do ? What happens if a woman hears the call and men... for lack of a better word don't? Are the women supposed to deny what is in their heart to do? Are they just supposed to stop listening even when they feel the LORD pulling them. Maybe in some of the instances, God would use that woman to pull a man in to that spot later on?
Afterall woman is to be a helpmeet, maybe this is just another instance of it?
Your concern is valid, but I disagree with the remedy. Men should assume their responsibilities, no doubt about it. However, when men fail, there is no latitude or reason to assume that God transfers that specific responsibility to the women. God does not call women to be pastors. In fact, I would say that any woman that feels the Lord is calling them into the ministry needs to try the spirits to see if they be of the Lord.(1 John 4:1) Clearly, there is no evidence of women pastors in Scripture. Why do you feel it to be necessary to "help" God out by attempting to fill a role God ordained for a man? That is not the role of a helpmeet, it is that of an interloper.
If a church is without a pastor, then the church needs to pray to the Lord to send the "man" He would have fill that position.
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amixedupmom
Guest
It would be nice but in some cases that just dosen't happen. But, MTA what if a women believes as you do, and concludes it is the Lord and nothing can disuade her? What is she to do then? I'm not saying me, cause it's not. I'm just worried about women out there who might go agaist God, simply because of this. I'm hoping they can find thier place to serve and to help others.
You even showed how SBC theology changed regarding slavery. If you were to study the history of the SBC you would see many more changes. As for one example sometime read A.T. Robertson and see how things compare today.
For another example study the issues surrounding Dr. Whitsitt at Southern Seminary and why he was fired. He was fired for teaching the same thing that most every SBC person believes today. He was fired for the same exact thing the SBC teaches today. There are many more.
I Am Blessed 24
Active Member
AMEN!
God does not go against His Word (Scripture), so He could not very well 'call' a woman to preach or teach men when He so clearly stated, in His Word, that it was against His will and not scriptural...
That is a basic Baptist belief. I don't understand why there are Baptists posting that it is all right.
§ue
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dianetavegia
Guest
That's what MY Bible says also!
Diane
I do not believe a woman should be a pastor. But also what is happening in the US is much like when a man won't lead the home. When a man does not lead a woman steps up to the plate and tries to do the job the best she can. It is not God's perfect plan but something does get done.
When I was a student at SWBTS they talked about patriarchal and matriarchal churches. I could not identify with matriarchal churches. I had never been in one until I started pastoring. Did I ever get the shock of my life. I saw men who were more relationship oriented than the women. The women were more like men and the men were more like women. I saw women who would tell their husbands what to do and the men did not lead. That was foreign to me. I grew up in a non-Christian home and my dad led.
When I pastored I saw so many weak men unlike I had seen before where I grew up. Where I live now the men lead. What a difference! In one church where I pastored I told the music minister about how I was disgusted at how the men were so weak. He told me it was always been that way in the SBC churches where his dad had been the music minister. We changed that by avoiding putting women in leadership and calling men to the task. But some of the women kept pressuring me to cave into their wants. What I found out was that the men were used to letting the women do the work and the women did not want to wait for the men. But it changed the church and the marriages of the couples.
So if we want second best then avoid doing what God requires.
When I was a student at SWBTS they talked about patriarchal and matriarchal churches. I could not identify with matriarchal churches. I had never been in one until I started pastoring. Did I ever get the shock of my life. I saw men who were more relationship oriented than the women. The women were more like men and the men were more like women. I saw women who would tell their husbands what to do and the men did not lead. That was foreign to me. I grew up in a non-Christian home and my dad led.
When I pastored I saw so many weak men unlike I had seen before where I grew up. Where I live now the men lead. What a difference! In one church where I pastored I told the music minister about how I was disgusted at how the men were so weak. He told me it was always been that way in the SBC churches where his dad had been the music minister. We changed that by avoiding putting women in leadership and calling men to the task. But some of the women kept pressuring me to cave into their wants. What I found out was that the men were used to letting the women do the work and the women did not want to wait for the men. But it changed the church and the marriages of the couples.
So if we want second best then avoid doing what God requires.
I Am Blessed 24
Active Member
You will see, if you read my posts, that I do NOT agree with a woman preaching to/teaching men.
But.......
To call us 'second best'. How unkind!
But.......
To call us 'second best'. How unkind!
AMEN!
Women do not belong behind the pulpit unless they are singing praises to our Lord Jesus Christ. I once went to a church, before I found the one I am currently at, and they and still do connect 3 different religions together for the summer time. They have a woman Baptist preacher, and Methodist and Presp. all under on roof. I walked in and was oblivious as to what was going on but when that woman got up and didn't sing but started to preach I certainly did an "Elvis". I left the building!
Keep the preaching to the men as God has intended. The poster that said his mom is an ordained pastor, and that he believes his bible says it only pertains to at home. My advice, get a new bible! That's the problem, people misconstrue what God has intended. My Bible, KJV1611 tells me that a woman shall not preach or rule over a church.
You look through the rally of Bibles out there and sooner or later you will find the one that goes along with what your personal beliefs are. That is why there are so many different bibles. Someone along the way didn't like what God had to say about a certain subject so they decided to change it or just delete it altogether.
I like my Bible, ALL of it, word for word. Weather it be something I like to hear or something I don't want to hear, I still like it.
"Thus Sayest The Lord"
[ July 23, 2004, 12:53 PM: Message edited by: BibleMaMa ]
2Sa 6:6 And when they came to Nachon's threshingfloor, Uzzah put forth his hand to the ark of God, and took hold of it; for the oxen shook it.
2Sa 6:7 And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Uzzah; and God smote him there for his error; and there he died by the ark of God.
Certainly when David initially ordered the ark to be moved back to Jerusalem, it was with the best of intentions, however, David determined to do it "his" way and not the way the Lord instructed. The ark was to be carried by the priests, not on an oxen cart. Plus, it was not to be touched in any manner by anyone other than a priest of the Levitical priesthood. Uzzah's death for disobedience, regardless of his good intentions are a testimony to God's decree that a certain protocol be followed regarding the Ark of the Covenant.
I said all of this, to say this . . .
The protocol of the Church of the Living God is no different. The same God in Glory determined the means whereby the gospel would be preached to a lost and dying world and who is to serve in specific roles and responsibilities in His church. You cannot do my work for me, and I cannot do yours. Men cannot fulfill the duties of women and, try as they might, women cannot perform the duties of men in the Lord's church.
If we each concentrate on the responsibilities that God has outlined for us in Scripture, there will be no time to consider crossing the gender boundaries in our service to the Lord.
2Sa 6:7 And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Uzzah; and God smote him there for his error; and there he died by the ark of God.
Certainly when David initially ordered the ark to be moved back to Jerusalem, it was with the best of intentions, however, David determined to do it "his" way and not the way the Lord instructed. The ark was to be carried by the priests, not on an oxen cart. Plus, it was not to be touched in any manner by anyone other than a priest of the Levitical priesthood. Uzzah's death for disobedience, regardless of his good intentions are a testimony to God's decree that a certain protocol be followed regarding the Ark of the Covenant.
I said all of this, to say this . . .
The protocol of the Church of the Living God is no different. The same God in Glory determined the means whereby the gospel would be preached to a lost and dying world and who is to serve in specific roles and responsibilities in His church. You cannot do my work for me, and I cannot do yours. Men cannot fulfill the duties of women and, try as they might, women cannot perform the duties of men in the Lord's church.
If we each concentrate on the responsibilities that God has outlined for us in Scripture, there will be no time to consider crossing the gender boundaries in our service to the Lord.
It is no diferent than calling me a second best mom. I am a dad and could never do what my wife does. I could never be the same as a mom. I am not wired that way.Originally posted by I Am Blessed 16:
You will see, if you read my posts, that I do NOT agree with a woman preaching to/teaching men.
But.......
To call us 'second best'. How unkind!
A woman pastor will never be a part of God's perfect plan. She may do a good job and preach well. But never be God's first choice. God's first choice is a male pastor. But if the men will not serve then I believe he will use a woman (which is what we are seeing today). God's primary plan is for the man to lead and if he will not the gospel will not cease but rather the women will begin to lead and get the gospel out.
Kind of reminds me of the accusation a young man made to an elderly lady missionary when I was in seminary. He asked her what gave her the right to be a woman missionary. Her reply was, "If there weren't so many lazy men like you, we wouldn't have to go." But I also do believe there are some cases when God chooses a woman to go into a particular area to give out the gospel. Whereas a man might be a threat to that village and a woman or women would not. Wycliffe Bible Translators knows of cases like this. One is recored in the book "And the Word Came With Power."
I am not calling women second rate or second best, just simply they would be second best as a pastor. Just like I would be a second rate mom.
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dianetavegia
Guest
Luke 19:39 And some of the Pharisees called to Him from the crowd, "Teacher, rebuke Your disciples." 40 But He answered and said to them, "I tell you that if these should keep silent, the stones would immediately cry out."
Numbers 28:28 And the LORD opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times? 29 And Balaam said unto the ass, Because thou hast mocked me: I would there were a sword in mine hand, for now would I kill thee. 30 And the ass said unto Balaam, Am not I thine ass, upon which thou hast ridden ever since I was thine unto this day? was I ever wont to do so unto thee? And he said, Nay. 31 Then the LORD opened the eyes of Balaam, and he saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand: and he bowed down his head, and fell flat on his face. 32 And the angel of the LORD said unto him, Wherefore hast thou smitten thine ass these three times? behold, I went out to withstand thee, because thy way is perverse before me: 33 And the ass saw me, and turned from me these three times: unless she had turned from me, surely now also I had slain thee, and saved her alive.
Numbers 28:28 And the LORD opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times? 29 And Balaam said unto the ass, Because thou hast mocked me: I would there were a sword in mine hand, for now would I kill thee. 30 And the ass said unto Balaam, Am not I thine ass, upon which thou hast ridden ever since I was thine unto this day? was I ever wont to do so unto thee? And he said, Nay. 31 Then the LORD opened the eyes of Balaam, and he saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand: and he bowed down his head, and fell flat on his face. 32 And the angel of the LORD said unto him, Wherefore hast thou smitten thine ass these three times? behold, I went out to withstand thee, because thy way is perverse before me: 33 And the ass saw me, and turned from me these three times: unless she had turned from me, surely now also I had slain thee, and saved her alive.
Paul of Eugene
New Member
I say that if God wanted women to be able to be pastors today then He would have called women to be prophets in the OT as well, and we all know that . . . .