D
dianetavegia
Guest
Well said, Blackbird!
Diane
Diane
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women preachers
- Thread starter Heavenbound01
- Start date
There is a huge difference between declaring God's Word and pastoring.
I am wondering how you deal with Judges four and five with Deborah. It seems to me that she would have use the law tpo judge. Therefore did she not proclaim God's word as a judge and prophetess. In 4:5 it even says "over the sons of Israel."
Blackbird, I understand and accept why scripture can be interpreted to ban women as pastors. As an SBC congregant, I don't have a problem with the church accepting this interpretation. However, DD states that women cannot address an assembly in which men are present. It is this which I vehemently and scripturally disagree with, as it compromises the Great Commission in regards to women. Addressing an assembly is not the same as pastoring.
Daniel David
New Member
What relevance does Deborah have with a preacher? Oh yeah, none. Thanks.
"Any woman who is a preaches in the context of the assembly is in sin, always. "
''
Selfish as I am, I'm going to bring my own job into this.
I don't preach, but I sometimes give lectures on churchhistory and the history of Christian art to the members of my church.
Male and female, young and old, often to a small group in an explicit sundayschool setting and sometimes I'm addressing the whole assembly from the 'pulpit' in the worship area of my church.
So anybody here want to complain about my conduct?
''
Selfish as I am, I'm going to bring my own job into this.
I don't preach, but I sometimes give lectures on churchhistory and the history of Christian art to the members of my church.
Male and female, young and old, often to a small group in an explicit sundayschool setting and sometimes I'm addressing the whole assembly from the 'pulpit' in the worship area of my church.
So anybody here want to complain about my conduct?
D
dianetavegia
Guest
Church history is NOT preaching.
That's my take...
Diane
That's my take...
Diane
Hi Heavenbound01. I'll not give an opinion, but just the Word. All Christians, not just Baptist are to believe.
Can anyone say it better than God. I am going to take from my body and make you mine,. you will be in My Church. I am the head. The head rules in every matter. You function because of me. I will teach you, and you will not teach me. I have spoken, and so it will be. I am sorry if you don’t believe me, but that is how it is. Men, and women may come in my name presuming to speak for me. I have given you a free will. You may do as you please. Believe me or believe them. It is I that judges and give rewards, or take away.
Can anyone say it better than God. Adam, I’m going to take from your body and make a woman for you, and she will be yours, and she will be a part of you, just as in My Church. You are the head. The head rules in every matter. She will function because of you. You will teach her, and she will not teach you as a Head of a church down there. I have spoken, and so it will be. Men and women may come in my name presuming to speak for me. You both have a free will. You may do as you please. Believe me or believe them. It is I that will judge you deciding whether or not you obeyed ME. I am your Reward. In me are rewards for those that do my will.
Can anyone say it better than God. Man, you are just as Adam. Woman, you are just as Eve.
Eve you disqualified yourself from the beginning. You added to my Word. This alone disqualifies you from ever representing ME and being the Head (Pastor) of My Church. I really don’t care what you do Outside of Me because you are not of Me. But If you Are In Me, why do you not believe Me. I will never let you go, but there will be a big fire to come, and be assured what you thought were good works, are not, because you listened to another voice. That big fire mentioned is my judgment. It is for unacceptable works, and beliefs. Woman you are just as you were in the beginning. No!. I have chosen, and Adam is the head.
Adam I have chosen you from the beginning. I created you for Me. You were not deceived, but for Her you did go against my will. I hold you responsible and it is up to you as the head to be the head of my church, down here. I made Her from you for You, both being mine. Because of You, will she not be accepted? Whether she ever marries, or doesn’t marry, She was made for You, and Me. But she is your equal in all things, but She is not the Head. You are to Love her. Her desire shall be for you. If you Love your Own Body you will treat and care for her as you would yourself. If you hate your own body, are then you ready for marriage? There will be some, but few, that will stay chaste for me, but this is not natural or expected to be the norm. But I give no edict for any man in one of my churches to require such a thing. That decision is between them and Me.
Christian faith, ituttut
StraightAndNarrow
Active Member
This is strictly a cultural issue. The devil must love it when we place unbiblical restrictions on members of the body of Christ.
Marcia
Active Member
Mioque, I'm sure not going to complain! Speaking on these topics is not exercising authority nor is it pastoring. I also speak in churches, usually giving my testimony and then speaking on aspects of the New Age or the occult, the areas of my ministry. I also usually do Q & A. I am not pastoring and I am not doing expository teachings, roles which I believe God gives to men via the NT teachings on this.
I also do not think it is unbiblical for a woman to preach in the sense of giving the gospel, as Billy Graham's daughter does.
However, women should not be pastors nor should they do expository teaching to men. I also believe it is not an issue to divide over - I have spoken in churches with women pastors and have friends in such churches who are brothers and sisters in Christ. However, I would not belong to a church that had a women pastor.
Here's a good article by Ron Rhodes on this issue:
http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/cri/cri-jrnl/web/crj0136a.html
or this link might be easier
http://tinyurl.com/3q6dw
(Go to www.tinyrul.com to make long links short!)
First of all we are all called to preach (Mark 16:15) that of course is witnessing to the lost, But I do have to say that a pulpit is for a man. Women can teach or witness or read the Bible and so on but the as for preaching it is for man. We are all equal in God's eyes. A pastor is to be a man. (I Tim 3) But we are to all preach the Gospel we are all told to do so.
Daniel David
New Member
S&N, it is not strictly a cultural issue as Paul appeals directly to the relationship to the Father and the Son in I Cor. 11.
GODzThunder
New Member
psychologically speaking... It is hard for a woman to serve as pastor. God created women to be creatures of emotion over logic and men to be logic over emotion (believe me ladies, this is not perk as most of you with husbands already know 
).
Ministry can be a hard and overbearing position for a creature driven upon emotion. Spiritual burdens can overcome those who are emotion driven to the point of death. The only sucessful women pastors I have ever seen are the ones with the spiritual gift of prophecy (hard skinned individuals who live to stamp out sin).
). Ministry can be a hard and overbearing position for a creature driven upon emotion. Spiritual burdens can overcome those who are emotion driven to the point of death. The only sucessful women pastors I have ever seen are the ones with the spiritual gift of prophecy (hard skinned individuals who live to stamp out sin).
(1Ti 2:12) But I do not allow a woman to teach, or to exercise authority over a man, but to be in silence.
(1Ti 2:13) For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
(1Ti 2:14) And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
(1Ti 2:15) But she will be kept safe through childbearing, if they continue in faith and love and holiness with sensibleness.
UMM, doesn't this speak for itself? Within the context of a church family or flock, a woman is not to excercise authority over men or to teach in an open assembly. Maybe some of this can be debated, but the pastor part can't be honestly argued. It's plain and clear. Even in the context of the scripture quoted, it's universal, not circumstantial. It's a rule that applies based on the begining of creation, not the church of Ephesus.
It's an ongoing debate that will probably always continue. I'm at Christ for the Nations and the founder is huge into women in authority roles in ministry. It's really in the end a matter of submission on all sides.
I applaude you Lea for winning your husband to Jesus. I think that's awesome.
Later,
jason
(1Ti 2:13) For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
(1Ti 2:14) And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
(1Ti 2:15) But she will be kept safe through childbearing, if they continue in faith and love and holiness with sensibleness.
UMM, doesn't this speak for itself? Within the context of a church family or flock, a woman is not to excercise authority over men or to teach in an open assembly. Maybe some of this can be debated, but the pastor part can't be honestly argued. It's plain and clear. Even in the context of the scripture quoted, it's universal, not circumstantial. It's a rule that applies based on the begining of creation, not the church of Ephesus.
It's an ongoing debate that will probably always continue. I'm at Christ for the Nations and the founder is huge into women in authority roles in ministry. It's really in the end a matter of submission on all sides.
I applaude you Lea for winning your husband to Jesus. I think that's awesome.
Later,
jason
Good thinking in understanding scripture, that some have missed.
Also, with your understanding, you may know this. Even if some believe that being a Judge and a Prophetess would qualify her, that doesn't make her a Pastor of the Body of Christ Church. It was unknown in the dispensation she lived in.
If you notice 1Corinthians 11:3
"But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God."
The context of the passage deals with order in the church. The Church is a organism! It has a head, eyes, limbs, a trunk, legs, and feet! (See 1Cor. 12)
But the Church is also an organization! Here, as well as in other texts throughout the New Testament---God spells out how He wants the church to be organized! He demands specific order.
Notice the chain of command---the order of the organization
(1) "Christ is the head of the man"
Invisable Jesus is in Heaven---but He serves as head over visable man! The man(pastor) in the church submits himself to the authority of Jesus!
(2) "The head of the woman is the man."
The women submits herself to the authority of the man.
Now, the responsibility of the man is to submit to Jesus as head! The idea(in a nutshell) is for the man(preacher) to obey the word from the Word!
The responsibility(in a nutshell) of the woman is to submit herself to the man who is obeying the word from the Word.
Both are to use Jesus as an example of their own submission! Man---in his submission to invisible Christ! Woman---in her submission to man as her head(authority)
Again---this passage has nothing to do with soul winning! Your husband is lost, you have the priviledge to lead him to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. Your wife is lost, you have the priviledge to lead her to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.
Rather, this text deals with order in the organization!
To not submit---to not obey this passage---is open rebellion!
"But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God."
The context of the passage deals with order in the church. The Church is a organism! It has a head, eyes, limbs, a trunk, legs, and feet! (See 1Cor. 12)
But the Church is also an organization! Here, as well as in other texts throughout the New Testament---God spells out how He wants the church to be organized! He demands specific order.
Notice the chain of command---the order of the organization
(1) "Christ is the head of the man"
Invisable Jesus is in Heaven---but He serves as head over visable man! The man(pastor) in the church submits himself to the authority of Jesus!
(2) "The head of the woman is the man."
The women submits herself to the authority of the man.
Now, the responsibility of the man is to submit to Jesus as head! The idea(in a nutshell) is for the man(preacher) to obey the word from the Word!
The responsibility(in a nutshell) of the woman is to submit herself to the man who is obeying the word from the Word.
Both are to use Jesus as an example of their own submission! Man---in his submission to invisible Christ! Woman---in her submission to man as her head(authority)
Again---this passage has nothing to do with soul winning! Your husband is lost, you have the priviledge to lead him to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. Your wife is lost, you have the priviledge to lead her to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.
Rather, this text deals with order in the organization!
To not submit---to not obey this passage---is open rebellion!
1 What do we mean by 'preach'?
2. What sort of authority is Paul forbidding in I Tim 2:12?
Your in Christ
Matt
2. What sort of authority is Paul forbidding in I Tim 2:12?
Your in Christ
Matt