Women Teaching Men

[Michael Wrenn]

I have not seen one woman in my church "suffer the inability to follow their gifts and calling". As a matter of fact, I've not only been able to use my gifts as have the other women in the church but we've been challenged to be stretched even more than we thought we could!!

I feel sorry for the women living in disobedience and defiance to God's Word.

But don't seek to impart any kind of spiritual truth or wisdom to post-pubescent males, or you'll be dodging lightning bolts, right? :laugh:

 

[annsni]

But don't seek to impart any kind of spiritual truth or wisdom to post-pubescent males, or you'll be dodging lightning bolts, right? :laugh:

Umm - no - but if you are teaching men, you are disobeying God. I will leave the men to my husband. Goodness knows, my church is more than half women - and women who really need someone to teach them, to mentor them, to pray with them and for them, to guide them and to disciple them. I'm way too busy working with the women!!

 

[Alive in Christ]

Ann...

So we are looking to Old Testament law for how we are to act in New Testament times?

Well you sure dont sound like a baptist. Isnt it the Church of Christ that goes by the new testament primarily.?

Personally, I consider the entirety of the scriptures to be for us.

Additionally, when we read the Old Testament law on slavery, we see it is WORLDS different than what slavery was in the Americas.

So there is *good slavery*....and *bad slavery* ???

Finally, we see in Paul's letter to Philemon about how we deal with slaves. Yes, he tells us that if we are a slave, we are to obey those in authority over us - just as we are told to do elsewhere.

Wow. Once again you are supporting slavery!! .....In order to continue your campaign of keeping women in thier place!

No where in the New Testament are we told to get slaves, encourage slavery or anything. Instead we see Paul encouraging Onesimus' owners to accept him back not as a slave but as a brother. Interesting.

I'm sure all of the slaves appreciated all that thier "masters" did for them.

 

[annsni]

Ann...



Well you sure dont sound like a baptist. Isnt it the Church of Christ that goes by the new testament primarily.?

Personally, I consider the entirety of the scriptures to be for us.



So there is *good slavery*....and *bad slavery* ???



Wow. Once again you are supporting slavery!! .....In order to continue your campaign of keeping women in thier place!



I'm sure all of the slaves appreciated all that thier "masters" did for them.

Slavery in the Old Testament was worlds different than slavery in the United States. I don't believe they can even be compared.

However, we are not arguing slavery. We are arguing against VERY CLEARLY WRITTEN SCRIPTURE. It is hard to argue with that.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Ann...

However, we are not arguing slavery. We are arguing against VERY CLEARLY WRITTEN SCRIPTURE. It is hard to argue with that.

OK.

So lets be logical about this. I agree with you that should go by, as you put it, CLEARLY WRITTEN SCRIPTURE.

Logically, in the clearly written scriptures, God Almigthy sanctions, in the old and new testaments....slavery. So that means that we here in America must enslave all of the blacks again, so as to be in line with Gods clearly writtin scriptures. Correct?

Because that is what you are doing with the issue of women never being pastors, or teaching men. You are ignoring the cultural issues that are no longer a problem, in order to KEEP THE COMMAND and not be in (((rebellion))), while ignoring all of that with the slavery issue.

If you are going to stick with "we women have to stay in our God givin role because of the scriptures", than you cant have all the blacks walking free.


You cant be inconsistant. If you hold to it with the one, you have to hold to it with the other. This is the scriptures here, we cant just pick and choose.

That fact is, we have come to our senses regarding slavery, and its HIGH TIME we come to our senses regarding women pastors and teachers.

 

[annsni]

Ann...




OK.

So lets be logical about this. I agree with you that should go by, as you put it, CLEARLY WRITTEN SCRIPTURE.

Logically, in the clearly written scriptures, God Almigthy sanctions, in the old and new testaments....slavery. So that means that we here in America must enslave all of the blacks again, so as to be in line with Gods clearly writtin scriptures. Correct?

Because that is what you are doing with the issue of women never being pastors, or teaching men. You are ignoring the cultural issues that are no longer a problem, in order to KEEP THE COMMAND and not be in (((rebellion))), while ignoring all of that with the slavery issue.

If you are going to stick with "we women have to stay in our God givin role because of the scriptures", than you cant have all the blacks walking free.


You cant be inconsistant. If you hold to it with the one, you have to hold to it with the other. This is the scriptures here, we cant just pick and choose.

That fact is, we have come to our senses regarding slavery, and its HIGH TIME we come to our senses regarding women pastors and teachers.

God told the Israelites. I'm not an Israelite. I don't stone my children when they are naughty and I wear mixed fabrics. I don't sleep in another bed when I'm menstruating and I love bacon. So, if we're going to "be consistent" as you say, then I'm completely wrong all around.

However, Jesus did not command slavery. He didn't create slavery. He didn't have slaves. He didn't tell other people to have slaves. Paul didn't command slavery either. He didn't encourage the church to have slaves.

However, Jesus used men in His inner circle. He sent out men. Paul specifically said that men were to be pastors. Women were not to teach or be in authority over men. I'd say that those are pretty clear guidelines - MUCH clearer than saying the Old Testament law that was given to the Israelites should be what we practice today in the church.

 

[Iconoclast]

Wrong! You cannot be honest and build a doctrine on one verse.

Well Crabtown,
This section of verses leaves no room for doubt and is some of the strongest teaching on it. It speaks of God's created order, and the violation that took place then.
There were no woman allowed in the priesthood. Anytime a woman had any prominence was a judgement upon the apostate nation , and apostate priests.
I have heard several well schooled pastors open up the Gk on the passage and they indicate that the woman ...being utterly deceived.....is in the language.
The Holy Spirit also highlights this by plainly describing the biblical qualification for eldership......we see men , and husbands..thats all.
the only other woman I see are false prophetess...and sorcerors.
Phoebe was a godly woman...but that is not what is being viewed as there are to be godly woman who instruct the younger woman. That does not equate to pastoral appointment by God.
in a pragmatic way.....who do we see in our day, trying to intrude into the ministry....a twice divorced woman who makes alot of money telling stories in between here error.....another who is a star in that religious world...in the process of getting divorced,and sharing motel rooms with other wof heretics..
Most of the teaching is hideous.
there are several woman speakers I have heard that are reasonably solid in speaking to woman , at womans conferences giving a lecture /seminar type thing. Billy Grahams daughter...i think her name is Ann Lotts?
i have heard Jan Silvious...speaking about foolproofing your life....it was thought provoking...with some error...but overall good.
There are two woman who do a program on Moody radio that sound like excellent role models for younger woman to emulate....they do a program called midday connection on Moody radio....90.1
But again..they are not intruding into the pastoral office to which no woman is called by God.....some run, but God did not send them.
:tear::tear:Usually I see lesbian woman in a unitarian church, or an apostate mainline church claiming God has 'called them'.

 

[Jerome]

As to women teaching men, Scripture records that Priscilla taught the preacher Apollos.

Phoebe was a godly woman...but that is not what is being viewed as there are to be godly woman who instruct the younger woman.

So was Deacon Phoebe sent to the church in Rome merely to "instruct the younger women" there?

Paul writes that she has been a patron to many, including Paul himself.

there are several woman speakers I have heard that are reasonably solid in speaking to woman , at womans conferences giving a lecture /seminar type thing. Billy Grahams daughter...i think her name is Ann Lotts?

Good for you for commending her.

Youtube: Anne Graham Lotz's Advice to Women in Ministry

She does not just "speak to women , at womans conferences giving a lecture /seminar type thing."

She speaks often of her experience addressing a Pastor's Conference where many bigoted men turned their chairs away from her when she took the pulpit.

Annsni can verify that Mrs. Lotz ministered to her whole church, pastors and all, at a Sunday service several years ago.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

As to women teaching men, Scripture records that Priscilla taught the preacher Apollos.



So was Deacon Phoebe sent to the church in Rome merely to "instruct the younger women" there?

Paul writes that she has been a patron to many, including Paul himself.



Good for you for commending her.

Youtube: Anne Graham Lotz's Advice to Women in Ministry

She does not just "speak to women , at womans conferences giving a lecture /seminar type thing."

She speaks often of her experience addressing a Pastor's Conference where many bigoted men turned their chairs away from her when she took the pulpit.

Annsni can verify that Mrs. Lotz ministered to her whole church, pastors and all, at a Sunday service several years ago.

Too bad that they didn't turn into pillars of salt.

 

[Christos doulos]

As to women teaching men, Scripture records that Priscilla taught the preacher Apollos.

Priscilla explained the word of God to him more accurately. There is nothing in scripture that says, women can't explain the word of God to men.

So was Deacon Phoebe sent to the church in Rome merely to "instruct the younger women" there?

Paul writes that she has been a patron to many, including Paul himself.

No where in scripture is Phoebe shown to be a teacher. Only an elder is qualified to teach.

She speaks often of her experience addressing a Pastor's Conference where many bigoted men turned their chairs away from her when she took the pulpit.

My friend. Seriously!? "bigoted"- Why not racist, homophobic, anti-semitic? Are you really going to show a lack of wisdom and resort to the world's level in proving your case by labeling fellow brothers in Christ like that?

My friend. Because you strongly disagree with their scriptural interpretation of women not being pastors, makes you by world's standards a bigot as well.
See the boomerang affect when you use worldly logic.

 

[Oldtimer]

My friend. Seriously!? "bigoted"- Why not racist, homophobic, anti-semitic? Are you really going to show a lack of wisdom and resort to the world's level in proving your case by labeling fellow brothers in Christ like that?

1.A person who regards his own faith and views in matters of religion as unquestionably right, and any belief or opinion opposed to or differing from them as unreasonable or wicked. In an extended sense, a person who is intolerant of opinions which conflict with his own, as in politics or morals; one obstinately and blindly devoted to his own church, party, belief, or opinion.
http://www.1828-dictionary.com/d/search/word,bigot

She speaks often of her experience addressing a Pastor's Conference where many bigoted men turned their chairs away from her when she took the pulpit.

Sounds like a bunch of bigots to me. To turn their backs on a sister in Christ who may be bringing a message He wants them to hear. Just as He sent women messagers long ago.

 

[Crabtownboy]

1.A person who regards his own faith and views in matters of religion as unquestionably right, and any belief or opinion opposed to or differing from them as unreasonable or wicked. In an extended sense, a person who is intolerant of opinions which conflict with his own, as in politics or morals; one obstinately and blindly devoted to his own church, party, belief, or opinion.
http://www.1828-dictionary.com/d/search/word,bigot

She speaks often of her experience addressing a Pastor's Conference where many bigoted men turned their chairs away from her when she took the pulpit.

Sounds like a bunch of bigots to me. To turn their backs on a sister in Christ who may be bringing a message He wants them to hear. Just as He sent women messagers long ago.

You are correct. They are bigoted. Seems a lot of people do not know the meaning of the word beyond race. The word bigot goes far beyond race. There are many bigoted people, bigoted in their theological stances.

 

[Christos doulos]

1.A person who regards his own faith and views in matters of religion as unquestionably right, and any belief or opinion opposed to or differing from them as unreasonable or wicked. In an extended sense, a person who is intolerant of opinions which conflict with his own, as in politics or morals; one obstinately and blindly devoted to his own church, party, belief, or opinion.
http://www.1828-dictionary.com/d/search/word,bigot

She speaks often of her experience addressing a Pastor's Conference where many bigoted men turned their chairs away from her when she took the pulpit.

Sounds like a bunch of bigots to me. To turn their backs on a sister in Christ who may be bringing a message He wants them to hear. Just as He sent women messagers long ago.

My friend. By worldly standards you are a bigot also. These are worldly terms used to discredit and shame others in strong arming a person to their own point of view.

I think you are being judgmental on the issue. To be honest I don't know what I would have done, maybe it was a lack of wisdom or love? I probably would not have turned my back, I may have sat through it, maybe even walked out, but then you would call me a bigot for walking out on a sister in Christ; a sister who is blatantly being disobedient and facilitated by the church you forgot to add.

My friend. I may not have done what they did, but I cannot condemn them as I don't know what was in their heart at the time.

When Christians get away from scripture, they allow all kind of worldly standards in the church. We have to be careful. Stick only to scripture.

 

[Christos doulos]

You are correct. They are bigoted. Seems a lot of people do not know the meaning of the word beyond race. The word bigot goes far beyond race. There are many bigoted people, bigoted in their theological stances.

Dictionary meaning:- a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.

My friend. That would make you a bigot as well

 

[Christos doulos]

1.A person who regards his own faith and views in matters of religion as unquestionably right, and any belief or opinion opposed to or differing from them as unreasonable or wicked. In an extended sense, a person who is intolerant of opinions which conflict with his own, as in politics or morals; one obstinately and blindly devoted to his own church, party, belief, or opinion.
http://www.1828-dictionary.com/d/search/word,bigot

She speaks often of her experience addressing a Pastor's Conference where many bigoted men turned their chairs away from her when she took the pulpit.

Sounds like a bunch of bigots to me. To turn their backs on a sister in Christ who may be bringing a message He wants them to hear. Just as He sent women messagers long ago.

If you were at a conference and a openly practicing gay pastor came up to speak. What would you do?

 

[matt wade]

If you were at a conference and a gay pastor came up to speak. What would you do?

These liberals around here would smile, listen to the message, and say "God works in mysterious ways!".

 

[Bro. Curtis]

See how Satan works ? People who obey the bible are bogots, people who cast doubt upon it are enlightened.

He must be pleased.

 

[Crabtownboy]

Dictionary meaning:- a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.

My friend. That would make you a bigot as well

You misunderstand my friend. That was the old me when I was young and with little experience. I am older now and know that no one has all the truth. I am always open to explore new ideas and accept them if I find them more Christ-like and leading me into a deeper faith.

 

[Christos doulos]

You misunderstand my friend. That was the old me when I was young and with little experience. I am older now and know that no one has all the truth. I am always open to explore new ideas and accept them if I find them more Christ-like and leading me into a deeper faith.

My friend. Please do not think I was condemning you. There is nothing wrong in being a bigot in of itself, even Jesus was a bigot (that was hard to say). It's what one is being bigoted against that makes it wrong.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Crabtownboy...

You are correct. They are bigoted. Seems a lot of people do not know the meaning of the word beyond race. The word bigot goes far beyond race. There are many bigoted people, bigoted in their theological stances.

Agreed.

And SHAME on those bigoted clods who literally turned thier backs on a woman the stature of Anne Graham Lotze.