Women wearing head Coverings

[evangelist6589]

Mt. Calvary Baptist Church of Greenville, SC is the only Baptist Church I have ever been in where 95% of the women in attendance wore head coverings. No I am not talking about their long hair, I am talking about the literal head coverings. This church gets this practice from this passage.

1 Cor 11:5
But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is the same as having her head shaved.

Personally I think they take the scripture out of context, and its not as if there are many Baptist Churches that have such a practice. I have been to Plymouth Brethren churches but Baptist Churches? Do you attend a church like this? How do you do your exegesis to make the scripture justify your practice?

 

[saturneptune]

In our church, no woman wears a head covering that attends regularly. I can remember growing up in the PCA church, lots of women did wear one. Not getting into the Scriptures as to whether it is cultural or not, the thing that irritated me about it was the hats blocking the pastor or singers.

Why do you think the Bible speaks differently of men and women when it comes to wearing a hat during worship services?

 

[Aaron]

(Made a joke. Tho't better of it.)

 

[kyredneck]

(now you've got my imagination going Aaron...)

 

[North Carolina Tentmaker]

When my wife was a student at BJU in the mid 80’s ladies were required to wear hats to Sunday morning services with this passage as the justification. I have been in several Baptist churches today that continue the custom, although it is not a rule. It seems to me to be more common in the African American Baptist Churches I have visited in Georgia and South Carolina although I have seen it in mixed race and majority white churches as well. In many churches it becomes a fashion exercise.

I Cor 11:1-16 is a difficult passage and one that I fail to understand. To be honest I am not sure what it is trying to say, but I will share some ideas of what I think.

1Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.
2Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.
3But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
4Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.
5But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
6For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
7For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
8For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.
9Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
10For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.
11Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.
12For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.
13Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?
14Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
15But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.
16But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.

· In verse 3 the words man and woman could be translated husband and wife (as they are in other locations) Is Paul writing of husbands and wives or of all men and women. If a man or woman is single how does this passage change?
· Is verse 5 talking about a covering of hair, or a veil or hat? In verse six where he says let her be covered is he talking about the “shorn women.” Is Paul saying that if a woman has short hair she should cover her head until it grows back out?
· I like verse 11 where it seems to show how men and women are made for each other, but that balances the theme of submission by the woman to the man and the man to God expressed earlier.
· In verse 13 Paul tells us to Judge for ourselves. Does this mean that this passage is to be interpreted in light of our own customs and traditions?

I do see a central theme here taking the passage as a whole that is easy to express and understand. We are the image and likeness of God. However we line it up, from God the Father to Jesus Christ the Son, to the Man to the Woman, we are representing God when we pray or prophecy or conduct any of the ordinances of the Church. Everything we do, and our appearance, from our apparel to our hair cut, should glorify God, and if it doesn’t that is a problem. So judge for yourself, do your appearance and actions glorify God? If they don’t, then let’s fix that.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

For a woman, especially in that first-century cultural context, to remove her head covering was to suggest equality with men in the church. I am not suggesting that women are not equal to men in privileges in the church, since in Christ there is neither male nor female as Paul wrote in Galatians 3:28. However, in the area of church authority there is a distinction.

“It seems that the Corinthian slogan, “everything is permissible,” had been applied to meetings of the church as well, and the Corinthian women had expressed that principle by throwing off their distinguishing dress. More importantly they seem to have rejected the concept of subordination within the church (and perhaps in society) and with it any cultural symbol (e.g., a head-covering) which might have been attached to it. According to Paul, for a woman to throw off the covering was an act not of liberation but of degradation. She might as well shave her head, a sign of disgrace (Aristophanes Thesmophoriazysae, 837). In doing so, she dishonors herself and her spiritual head, the man.”

-- Walvoord, John F., and Zuck, Roy B., The Bible Knowledge Commentary, (Wheaton, Illinois: Scripture Press Publications, Inc.) 1983, 1985​

God has set up the man as the head of the wife.

Ephesians 5, (NASB)
3 For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is head of the church, He Himself being the savior of the body.​

Women are not to be pastors and elders.

Titus 1
5 For this reason I left you in Crete, that you would set in order what remains and appoint elders in every city as I directed you,
6 namely, if any man is above reproach, the husband of one wife, having children who believe, not accused of dissipation or rebellion.​

This is an authority structure set up by God. He emphasized the importance of that authoritative hierarchy of God over men and men over women, spiritually. That is why men prayed without head coverings while women did. Why? Paul tells us:

1 Corinthians 11
7 For a man ought not to have his head covered, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man.
8 For man does not originate from woman, but woman from man;
9 for indeed man was not created for the woman's sake, but woman for the man's sake.
10 Therefore the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels.​

So, Paul is talking about authority. When we recognize the authority of God over us, we are subjecting ourselves to His authority. Likewise, women wearing the head-covering, were publicly demonstrating their subjection to the authority placed over them.

 

[go2church]

Only if they are preaching

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Only if they are preaching

:thumbsup: :laugh:

 

[Tom Butler]

I Corinthians 11:15 seems to settle the issue:

15But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.

Her hair is her head cover. No hat or cap in view here.

 

[clark thompson]

Mt. Calvary Baptist Church of Greenville, SC is the only Baptist Church I have ever been in where 95% of the women in attendance wore head coverings. No I am not talking about their long hair, I am talking about the literal head coverings. This church gets this practice from this passage.

1 Cor 11:5
But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is the same as having her head shaved.

Personally I think they take the scripture out of context, and its not as if there are many Baptist Churches that have such a practice. I have been to Plymouth Brethren churches but Baptist Churches? Do you attend a church like this? How do you do your exegesis to make the scripture justify your practice?

Because of this women do sometimes where hats during service such as bonnets while men take their hats out of a respect but we do not practice this.

 

[annsni]

How long is long? (note, my hair when straightened is to my upper waist so I'd say it's not just long but LONG) Is it past the shoulder? Is it to mid back? Is it long enough that when she sits down, she pulls her own hair sitting on it?

 

[go2church]

Yes indeed, how long is long enough?

 

[prophet]

I Corinthians 11:15 seems to settle the issue:


Her hair is her head cover. No hat or cap in view here.

No-brainer.

 

[prophet]

There was a day when the Baptists wouldnt fellowship with the Presbyterians over this issue. 17 th century England.
The men were asked to remove their hats. When this passage was given as reason for the request, the Baptists protested, and removed themselves. They also cited that there was no precedent for choirs, either.

 

[saturneptune]

Yes indeed, how long is long enough?

Right, it is a matter of opinion. A large part of all this is how the local church one worships at looks at these passages. It is a matter of respect. I mean, I could put on a ball cap backwards during this Sunday's service, and there is not a thing that anyone could do about it, but if it for some reason offends most of the congregation, what is the point? If I want to wear a backwards ball cap, I should find a church that is ok at.

A few posters mention 1 Cor 11:15, about the head covering for women. However, go on one verse to 16. We always seem to leave out followup verses. Basically, it says if a church is having a knock down drag out over such issues, it has ceased to be of any use. In other words, get on with the work of the Lord instead of worrying about someone's head. Here is a commentary from Gill on the verse.

1 Corinthians 11:16
But if any man seem to be contentious
That is, if anyone will not be satisfied with reasons given, for men's praying and prophesying with their heads uncovered, and women's praying and prophesying with their heads covered; but will go on to raise objections, and continue carping and cavilling, showing that they contend not for truth, but victory, can they but obtain it any way; for my part, as if the apostle should say, I shall not think it worth my while to continue the dispute any longer; enough has been said to satisfy any wise and good man, anyone that is serious, thoughtful, and modest; and shall only add,

we have no such custom, nor the churches of God;
meaning, either that men should appear covered, and women uncovered in public service, and which should have some weight with all those that have any regard to churches and their examples; or that men should be indulged in a captious and contentious spirit; a man that is always contending for contention sake, and is continually cavilling and carping at everything that is said and done in churches, and is always quarrelling with one person or another, or on account of one thing or another, and is constantly giving uneasiness, is not fit to be a church member; nor ought he to be suffered to continue in the communion of the church, to the disturbance of the peace of it. This puts me in mind of a passage in the Talmud F14.

 

[evangelist6589]

I did not know this. They have loosened up over the years. When I first was there in 2007 they would not allow anyone to have a beard, but they changed that policy. Last I heard students were no longer forced to wear suit and tie to every class and every church service. However I will add that people attending churches that disagree, and churches that believe in the literal head covering that is beyond the hair, then that is their church to continue to attend there. If they disagree then find another church. MOST do not believe in a literal head covering so that should not be difficult.

When my wife was a student at BJU in the mid 80’s ladies were required to wear hats to Sunday morning services with this passage as the justification. I have been in several Baptist churches today that continue the custom, although it is not a rule. It seems to me to be more common in the African American Baptist Churches I have visited in Georgia and South Carolina although I have seen it in mixed race and majority white churches as well. In many churches it becomes a fashion exercise.

I Cor 11:1-16 is a difficult passage and one that I fail to understand. To be honest I am not sure what it is trying to say, but I will share some ideas of what I think.



· In verse 3 the words man and woman could be translated husband and wife (as they are in other locations) Is Paul writing of husbands and wives or of all men and women. If a man or woman is single how does this passage change?
· Is verse 5 talking about a covering of hair, or a veil or hat? In verse six where he says let her be covered is he talking about the “shorn women.” Is Paul saying that if a woman has short hair she should cover her head until it grows back out?
· I like verse 11 where it seems to show how men and women are made for each other, but that balances the theme of submission by the woman to the man and the man to God expressed earlier.
· In verse 13 Paul tells us to Judge for ourselves. Does this mean that this passage is to be interpreted in light of our own customs and traditions?

I do see a central theme here taking the passage as a whole that is easy to express and understand. We are the image and likeness of God. However we line it up, from God the Father to Jesus Christ the Son, to the Man to the Woman, we are representing God when we pray or prophecy or conduct any of the ordinances of the Church. Everything we do, and our appearance, from our apparel to our hair cut, should glorify God, and if it doesn’t that is a problem. So judge for yourself, do your appearance and actions glorify God? If they don’t, then let’s fix that.

 

[HAMel]

What would the average Baptist church do with a woman confined to a wheel chair what wears a hat?

...being a Christian should not be a burden.

 

[sag38]

Churches that impose head coverings on women are probably way more controlling of their membership in many other different ways. I want to go to a church that honors God's word without trying to nitpick my life and that of the congregation such as the length of one's hair, when and where to wear a cap on one's heard, which translation of the Bible to use, etc. In such places the emphasis is not on worship of the one true and living God but on institutional control and power over the people who attend.

 

[Bro. James]

The answer is probably some where between fig leaves and berkas.

What about those who are bald from chemotherapy?

"The husband is the head of the wife" is rejected by many.

"...whatsoever you do, do all for the glory of God".

We are still having a problem with our flesh and the lust thereof--nothing new.

Now what?

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

 

[prophet]

What would the average Baptist church do with a woman confined to a wheel chair what wears a hat?

...being a Christian should not be a burden.

The wheel chair wears a hat?

Put her in the aisle, next to the pew that the people who brought her are sitting in, of course.