Women wearing pants are in sin

[Daniel David]

Originally posted by Johnv:
I'm amused in the way you bring it up in this topic, and duck and run by telling me to take it to another topic.

22 posts in 101 for the whole topic doesn't constitute ducking and running. I have engaged this debate on the Theology Forum. Until someone reasonably answers my objections, I don't see the need to keep going after it. If you start the thread, I will join though. Feel free.

 

[Abiyah]

So, according to your treatise, if the government
tels me to stop wearing pants, even though I
believe wearing dresses and skirts to be immod-
est, Ii am to stop wearing pants? Wow. That
means that, according to you, Peter and the
others had not a "leg to stand upon" when they
were forced to appear before the Sanhedrin
after escaping from prison.

1. They disobeyed the day's sppiritual authority.
2. They were in thegovernment jail.
3. They escaped the government jail.
4. Tthey continued to preach, which is what they
were in jail for.

You will need to try a little harder to explain to
me why I would need to obey an extrabiblical
rule, that of not wearing pants, just because a
pastor disliked them. 8o)

I once had a pastor who said that we women
could not wear dresses which hung to the ankle,
too. Why? HE did not like them. Were they
modest? Certainly, for skirts, they were modest.

 

[Daniel David]

Abiyah, these two principles govern everything in regards to submission:

1. the integrity of the gospel

2. a clear moral teaching/guideline in Scripture

Peter was arrested for preaching the gospel (which was a direct order from Christ). You wearing pants isn't. The two are not connected. Again, I am NOT against women in pants.

 

[GrannyGumbo]

I've been here since April & each time the topic of dress comes up, it usually gets locked. I'd rather see it open & read hundreds of pages, than those on drinking or thongs or worse.

I used to try to justify myself on the wearing of pants, but when the Lord got a hold of me & I submitted, there was no going back! I just wish I had of been taught from early age about the freedom in dresses.

God finds a heart that's right towards Him, so sweet, don't He? I hear of more & more women becoming enlightened on clothing, but I also know that satan continues to give more & more excuses!

Just like with a little leaven... when folks start removing their clothes, there is nothing Godly about it! Kilts on men? Wrong! [Even the public restroom signs know the difference.] Men should look like men & women should look like women.

I don't think slits/splits, tight & revealing, is being modest, but I don't judge someone who feels they are in the Lord's Will wearing modest slacks.

Who puts it in our head that pants/shorts, etc. is a little more comfy? Who's behind the crossdressers? Who sends the ladies to the barbershop & the men to the beautyshop?

Yes, the more these issues are heatedly argued, the more convinced I am of its seriousness.

 

[Abiyah]

Originally posted by Preach the Word:
Abiyah, these two principles govern everything in regards to submission:

1. the integrity of the gospel

2. a clear moral teaching/guideline in Scripture

Peter was arrested for preaching the gospel (which was a direct order from Christ). You wearing pants isn't. The two are not connected. Again, I am NOT against women in pants.

You, then, apparently perceive my quest for
modesty in deportment for the sake of my Lord
to be inconsequential. I perceive it to be accord-
ing to my portrayal of the integrity of the gospel
as I attempt to abide by it. It is a clear moral
teaching and guideline of the Bible, a direct order
of our Lord, to maintain modesty; this is my way
of doing that.

If one of my pastors, or someone else who
assumes spiritual authority over me, tells me
I may not do whatr I believe I must to maintain
modesty or any other godly concept, I will not
obey. By their very demand, they have lost
integrity and therefore all spiritual authority
over me.

 

[Walls]

Amen Granny, this thread has been quite busy since this morning.

Let me ask you all one final question. Two saved women, one in a modest dress and the other in modest pants, happens to be in a grocery store one day (not necessarily together) and this happens to be where they shop all the time. Each of these women have a cheery disposition but neither one has ever shared the gospel to the cashier. If this cashier was seeking the Lord, which one of these women would she talk to? The one who she has seen consistently in a dress is probably who she would think would happen to know something about the Lord.

I once heard a pastor say from the pulpit, that he hated to wear a tie and suitcoat, but felt that it was his uniform so that people would recognize that he was the pastor. You may be the only Bible a lost person may read, and wouldn't it be wonderful if the uniform you wore told the world you were a Christian.

 

[Johnv]

I don't remember advocating submission to sin
Requiring someone to submitting to your wishes simply because you want to exert authority is a sin. Therefore, forbidding a woman from wearing pants simply because you wish it is a sin.

 

[Abiyah]

I wear pants 24/7, yet people who do not know me
recognize me as a believer and walk up to talk to
me about it. Ii have never had a believer come up
to me and begin to testify to me of our Lord,
thinking that Ii was not a believer.

 

[hrhema]

I belonged to a Holiness movement for years and I bought into everything they taught. In studying the issue of pants if you study Babylonian and Egyptian history you will find that women wore clothing with legs way before this scripture was ever written so the concept and belief pants were created for men has absolutely no foundation.

This argument has no biblical basis taken from Deuteronomy. The law was talking about image.
Men and women both wore robes. The differences were found in material, color, fringes etc. The same as in womens pants. Men would not wear them.

 

[Headcoveredlady]

Originally posted by Sherrie:
When you add rules to having a relationship with God, and try to enforce them all the time on others, you are a stumbling block. This could be the very reason some may not even try to get to know God. Man makes too many stipulations. That is ashame. If this is how you feel for you....leave it at that. But quit constantly trying to force it on me. And you are. NO matter how you word it. Great! I am proud you wear a dress! How many did you lead to the Lord today?

Sherrie

Dearest Sister Sherrie,
You asked me how many I have lead to the Lord today. I will try to answer that question with how the Lord has worked through me in the past since wearing ONLY dresses that are loose, long and flowing and headcovering.
Since you asked me a direct question. You did not use my initials but it seems the post was directed at me. If I am incorrect that you directed it at me then it would be good for me to post this anyway for those who may be reading this and not posting but may be considering reasons to wear dresses only.
Since I have worn ONLY dresses and headcoverings I have had many, many interesting things happen to me. I have had a woman ask me for a tract, I have had another woman come up to me and tell me she knew that I was a Christian, and many others simply ask me about my beliefs. This has opened the door many, many times to tell these people about my JESUS. I have been able to witness many, many times because people have actually APPROACHED ME. I can not tell you how many times I have been able to witness because of people approaching me.
Before when I wore pants and had my hair all done up I never, repeat never ever had anyone approach ME about Christianity.
I can honestly say that the only ones who seem most upset with my appearance both here at the BB and at my church are professing Christian women. Christian men mostly that I meet seem happy about it.
When I wore pants and other clothing that was immodest I fit in just fine. Everyone was happy and pleased with me. And I never had anyone approach me about Jesus Christ.
Now, I am not saying these things to "prove," myself. I do not dress the way I do for people. I do it for my Lord. And I feel confident that He alone is the One I am to please. I say these things to encourage those who may be wondering if dresses only can be done even though you will meet with much opposition from those in the Church.

HCL

[ November 27, 2002, 01:04 AM: Message edited by: Headcoveredlady ]

 

[AdoptedDaughter]

Originally posted by Walls:
Let me ask you all one final question. Two saved women, one in a modest dress and the other in modest pants, happens to be in a grocery store one day (not necessarily together) and this happens to be where they shop all the time. Each of these women have a cheery disposition but neither one has ever shared the gospel to the cashier. If this cashier was seeking the Lord, which one of these women would she talk to? The one who she has seen consistently in a dress is probably who she would think would happen to know something about the Lord.

This is a scarey thought...We're relying on dresses to testify that one is saved? I know plenty of good women who wear dresses that are not saved, so, according to you, at least the way that you put it, a woman is saved because she wears a dress?! Give me a break! That is like saying that because a book has a shiny cover means that it's better than the rest!

Why I wear pants: 1. There's no commandment that says I can't
2. Dresses are easier for a rapist to rape a woman in
3. I'm more modest in pants with a lot of the activites that I am involved in

Just because one woman is convicted to wear dresses, doesn't mean that it is wrong for any other woman to wear them! It's certaintly scarey when a person thinks that a dress equals salvation... It is supposed to be our actions that set us apart from the world, and as long as we are modest in what we wear, please show me where the sinning is taking place!

~Teresa~

 

[Headcoveredlady]

To Teresa,
Submission is about doing whatever the other person tells you to do. When we submit to God do we question Him? Are we supposed to question Him? Or are we to trust and obey? God tells women to submit to their husbands as unto the Lord. How happy and blessed we could make our husbands if we just did whatever they asked.
I am not talking about men who ask their wives to commit murder or bank robbery.

HCl

 

[GrannyGumbo]

Sister HCL~I appreciate your testimony so much! You have been a real encouragement to me. Back when my girls & I began our "new life" in dresses only, we were treated as an off-scouring bunch.

We have been laughed at, called pentecostal & much worse, & all this from other family members! There's not anything I can't do in a skirt that I did in pants! I feel so different now & it's wonderful!

 

[AdoptedDaughter]

Originally posted by HeadCoveredLady:
I can not tell you how many times I have been able to witness because of people approaching me.

People approaching you? Hmm...shall we take that on very quickly, you know, I think that I will....You're waiting for people to approach you? That's sad.....We are to share our experience with others, correct...So, are we supposed to wait for people to approach us? NO, actually we are commanded to go out and preach(in other words, we're supposed to go up to people and talk to them, not wait for them to come up to us...) so...good for you, you have people approaching you, when, from what you've said, you never approached them before!

Before when I wore pants and other immodest clothing and had my hair all done up I never, repeat never ever had anyone approach me about Christianity.

HCL, the key word is immodest...you were dressing immodestly, maybe that's why you were led to wear only dresses, cause you didn't know how to dress modestly any other way....so, I don't see how either of these reasons are convincing enough for any woman who wears modest pants to change to wearing only dresses!

~Teresa~

 

[Headcoveredlady]

Dear Teresa,
I find it very interesting that Walls and I were typing similar things at the same time. Anyway, we do not rely on our dresses to show Christianity. Actually love is the mark of a Christian.
But, 1 Samual 16:7 tells us that people DO JUDGE BY THE OUTWARD APPEARANCE. That is how we are. It does not mean it is right. However, many times the only thing someone has to go by is the OUTWARD APPEARANCE. I prefer to have as modest and feminine appearance as I possibly can.
The most modest and feminine is a long flowing loose garment according to 1 Tim 2. It hides breast and hips better and covers the legs. These are parts of a woman that men find sensual. Why not cover the shape of the female anatomy and have them look instead at our faces. I recognize that some men will lust even if you are in a potato sack. But, shouldn't we strive to wear the garments that will bring glory to the Lord and not ourselves. And if we know that a dress is the most feminine article of clothing why not wear it all the time?
When I was searching this issue out I had a friend who wore only dresses. I used to gossip like a hater of God about her. I used to call her names like legalist. But, when I got down on my own knees and asked the Lord what He wanted me to do He did show me. Before I would just make agruments from my own feelings and emotions but once I asked the Lord, "What do you want me to do,?" He certianly did answer.

HCL

 

[Headcoveredlady]

Teresa,
I am not waiting for someone to approach me. I enjoy witnessing and do it whenever the Lord uses me. But, being approached actually helps the process. Having done witnessing both ways being approached in my mind is the Lord telling me this is one you are to be used to witness to today.

HCL

 

[JIMNSC]

You all may have attracted the attention of the SPCA on this thread. This poor horse has been beat to death since 4:52 on the 24th!

 

[AdoptedDaughter]

Originally posted by Headcoveredlady:
To Teresa,
Submission is about doing whatever the other person tells you to do.

Sorry, HCL, but you're telling me to do everything that someone else tells me to do? You're telling me to follow the will of a fallible man...I'm sorry, but I can't do that. Submission is allowing the husband to be the head of the household, and when it comes to making decisions, it's supporting your husband in the final decisions, even if you don't agree with it....Submission is not being told what you can and cannot wear.

When we submit to God do we question Him? Are we supposed to question Him? Or are we to trust and obey?

Submitting to God and submitting to man are two totally different things....Submitting to God means no questions asked, do whatever He says, because He is infallible, all-knowing, all-powerful...Man is fallible, weak, and ignorant...I will not do everythingthat my husband tells me, but I will be submissive and the type of wife described in the Bible....

Tell me where I'm erring, please, because according to studying, and the meaning of the word, I have yet to be shown!

~Teresa~

God tells women to submit to their husbands as unto the Lord.

 

[Headcoveredlady]

Sister Granny,
You are one funny lady! I know all about being the offscouring.
Anyway, I read this somewhere and I think it was great. A group of ladies were in a class and the teacher showed them two pitures. One of a woman in loose fitting jeans and the other in a long loose flowing dress. The teacher asked the ladies to close their eyes then open them and look first upon the woman in jeans. Then to do the same with the picture of the woman in the dress. Then the teacher asked the class when they opened their eyes where did their eyes naturally fall when they first opened them. Most everyone said the private area for the woman in jeans. For the one in the dress they said the face.
Anyway my husband who works with women who wear pants came home one day and told me that there was a person there who he could not tell what gender this person was. He had to LOOK AT HER BREASTS TO BE ABLE TO TELL IF SHE WAS A WOMAN. She was very thin and he still could not tell. But, eventually he was able to tell that she is indeed a woman when she spoke. But, I wonder how many other men have TO LOOK AT THE BREASTS TO BE ABLE TO TELL IF ONE IS A MAN OR WOMAN. Do you not think that this is by design that pants do this?

HCL

 

[Headcoveredlady]

Teresa,
We are to submit to our husbands as unto the Lord.That is the Word not me. Do you think I actually made that up. Hey, I am Eve's daughter too. But, Spiritually I want to be Sara's.

HCL