Daniel David
New Member
This thread is being temporarily locked. It might be reopened in a bit.
[ November 28, 2002, 10:33 AM: Message edited by: Barnabas ]
[ November 28, 2002, 10:33 AM: Message edited by: Barnabas ]
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Women wearing pants are in sin
- Thread starter Mickes
- Start date
Son of Consolation
New Member
This thread has been closed by one of the Moderators earlier, and during all this time the subject matter was discussed behind the scene among the respective parties. I am happy to report that the matter has been resolved, and we all came through this with a better understanding of what is proper and what is not in the art of posting.
Just a brief summary of the resolutions (of which we are all encouraged to follow):
1. Always communicate truth with love.
2. Do not use inflammatory words, and do not personally address another poster - address the issue instead.
3. Personal Messages are not to be posted on the board. That is why they are called "personal."
4. If you have a conflict with a poster, try to resolve it through Personal Messages.
BTW, if a BB member does not allow personal messages, then bring his/her attention that you would like to communicate instead of posting the matter of controversy in the open forum. If we all try to implement these suggestions, then there will be a much friendlier Baptist Board here, don't you think? Have a truly blessed and happy Thanksgiving Day! God bless you all.
Barnabas, BB Administrator
Just a brief summary of the resolutions (of which we are all encouraged to follow):
1. Always communicate truth with love.
2. Do not use inflammatory words, and do not personally address another poster - address the issue instead.
3. Personal Messages are not to be posted on the board. That is why they are called "personal."
4. If you have a conflict with a poster, try to resolve it through Personal Messages.
BTW, if a BB member does not allow personal messages, then bring his/her attention that you would like to communicate instead of posting the matter of controversy in the open forum. If we all try to implement these suggestions, then there will be a much friendlier Baptist Board here, don't you think? Have a truly blessed and happy Thanksgiving Day! God bless you all.
Barnabas, BB Administrator
AdoptedDaughter
New Member
Thank you for those guidelines, Barnabas, oops! I wasn't supposed address you! 
Seriously, hopefully this will prevent many ill-feelings and produce an atmosphere where we can discuss and grow, not discuss and hurt!
~Teresa~
Seriously, hopefully this will prevent many ill-feelings and produce an atmosphere where we can discuss and grow, not discuss and hurt!
~Teresa~
KeeperOfMyHome
New Member
Soooo . . . what I'd like to know is when are you FELLAS gonna start wearing skirts? I mean, you know, if pants are not strictly a man's garment since pants can be made into a style/fashion that women can wear (I guess you'd say feminine pants), would you men folks wear a skirt that has been fashioned into a style a man can wear and that is considered a "man's skirt"?
BTW, this is a very serious question on my part . . . it's something I have been thinking about for a while. I'd really like to hear what you guys have to say about wearing skirts made 'specially for guys.
Do we have a double standard?
I know guys wouldn't be caught dead in a skirt because it's a "woman's garment" . . . and yet, it has become perfectly acceptable for women to wear what was once considered a "man's garment".
If there is a garment that is specifically a woman's garment and is associated with being a woman (skirts/dresses), should there not then be that garment which is specifically a man's garment and is associated with being a man?
Food for thought, but would like an answer from the guys on whether they'd wear a skirt/dress made for a man.
Julia
b-r-r-r-r-r, baby it's cold outside!
[ November 27, 2002, 11:50 PM: Message edited by: KeeperOfMyHome ]
BTW, this is a very serious question on my part . . . it's something I have been thinking about for a while. I'd really like to hear what you guys have to say about wearing skirts made 'specially for guys.
Do we have a double standard?
I know guys wouldn't be caught dead in a skirt because it's a "woman's garment" . . . and yet, it has become perfectly acceptable for women to wear what was once considered a "man's garment".
If there is a garment that is specifically a woman's garment and is associated with being a woman (skirts/dresses), should there not then be that garment which is specifically a man's garment and is associated with being a man?
Food for thought, but would like an answer from the guys on whether they'd wear a skirt/dress made for a man.
Julia
b-r-r-r-r-r, baby it's cold outside!
[ November 27, 2002, 11:50 PM: Message edited by: KeeperOfMyHome ]
I don't think that's a reasonable question, actually. Women who wear pants do so out of modesty for some, convenience of working for others. Since when would a dress or skirt enhance either a man's modesty or convenience of working?
Makes me wonder why and how women got stuck wearing dresses in the first place! Because we were delicate and needed servants who wore pants? Just joking there... well, half-way, anyway.
Seriously, why and how was it declared that a dress was a woman's affair?
Makes me wonder why and how women got stuck wearing dresses in the first place! Because we were delicate and needed servants who wore pants?
Just joking there... well, half-way, anyway. Seriously, why and how was it declared that a dress was a woman's affair?
Son of Consolation
New Member
Hey, Julia, good to see you back in the brrrrrrrrr cold country! You have a good question there, but you forgot the Scots - didn't you? We have a couple of folks in our building, and when they go for an official gathering they do wear their "skirts."
Incidentally, this women's v.s. men's apparel is growing out of proportion, don't you think? As you may know, I was born and raised up in Hungary, in the heart of the real cold country. Women folks there wore "men's" pants, and on top of it they wore a skirt. They did this because of protection from the extreme cold. And they did dress in men's clothing when they worked in factories because it was much safer for them to do so. Most American women of the faith think that they have a monopoly on Biblical interpretation of clothing. The Bible, however, tells women to dress modestly - and that my dear ladies can be achieved in full men's clothing (as my Mother and three sisters did shortly after WWII because they had nothing else to wear). I think that the focus of the Biblical modest apparel was shifted to the wrong direction here - sort of sidetracked. This may have been because of our permissive society in cross dressing in this country (and that in a most immodest way). Folks, please do not mistake modesty with open rebellion by the unsaved world around us, because then you are talking about apples when others are trying to put the focus on oranges.
I have been saved while I was very young, but in Hungary they do not Baptize children, so I was immersed at the age of 16. That was back on July 3, 1955. I have lived in several countries, and I can tell you that I have recognized immodest appareled women in all walks of life who wore dresses, and at the same time I noticed women with Biblical modesty even though they wore men's clothing. We have to remember that it is not the clothing which changes the appearance of a person but the precious blood of the Lamb. But if we follow the Biblical mandate, then we cannot single out only modest apparel for women, but we have to read the entire passage of the Bible dealing with this subject in 1 Timothy 2:9-15.
[ November 28, 2002, 06:29 AM: Message edited by: Barnabas ]
We have a couple of folks in our building, and when they go for an official gathering they do wear their "skirts."
Incidentally, this women's v.s. men's apparel is growing out of proportion, don't you think? As you may know, I was born and raised up in Hungary, in the heart of the real cold country. Women folks there wore "men's" pants, and on top of it they wore a skirt. They did this because of protection from the extreme cold. And they did dress in men's clothing when they worked in factories because it was much safer for them to do so. Most American women of the faith think that they have a monopoly on Biblical interpretation of clothing. The Bible, however, tells women to dress modestly - and that my dear ladies can be achieved in full men's clothing (as my Mother and three sisters did shortly after WWII because they had nothing else to wear). I think that the focus of the Biblical modest apparel was shifted to the wrong direction here - sort of sidetracked. This may have been because of our permissive society in cross dressing in this country (and that in a most immodest way). Folks, please do not mistake modesty with open rebellion by the unsaved world around us, because then you are talking about apples when others are trying to put the focus on oranges.
I have been saved while I was very young, but in Hungary they do not Baptize children, so I was immersed at the age of 16. That was back on July 3, 1955. I have lived in several countries, and I can tell you that I have recognized immodest appareled women in all walks of life who wore dresses, and at the same time I noticed women with Biblical modesty even though they wore men's clothing. We have to remember that it is not the clothing which changes the appearance of a person but the precious blood of the Lamb. But if we follow the Biblical mandate, then we cannot single out only modest apparel for women, but we have to read the entire passage of the Bible dealing with this subject in 1 Timothy 2:9-15.
[ November 28, 2002, 06:29 AM: Message edited by: Barnabas ]
Headcoveredlady
New Member
First of all I wanted to thank the moderators and administrators for their work in this.
Secondly I am only a person with opinions just like you. If I offend you then please send me a PRIVATE MESSAGE. I have always welcomed them and will continue to do so (Matthew 18). If I do not offend you but you do not like what I say then please when you see my screen name do not read my post.
Thirdly as I posted in another section, N
NE CAN ACHIEVE RIGHTEOUSNESS APART FROM THE SHED BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST (Romans 3 and Hebrews 9 :22).
My best is as filthy rags next to the Perfect Savior Jesus Christ.
I have never once said that wearing dresses has saved me. Nor have I said that I have a better standing with the Lord because of this.
In fact the Lord brought to mind today a woman I know who wears pants and t-shirts and has very short hair. She is a soul winner and she has devoted herself to giving to the poor. I am very pleased to count her as one of my friends and sisters in Christ.
She may very well have for herself stored up more treasures than I in heaven for she seems to have given up much more than I for the poor.
And the same goes for others here. I do not know the works that you do for the Lord. He is the final judge.
I only come to encourage those who may be seeking in THIS AREA IN THEIR LIFE. And I have WELCOMED PRIVATE MESSAGES and will continue to do so.
HCL
Secondly I am only a person with opinions just like you. If I offend you then please send me a PRIVATE MESSAGE. I have always welcomed them and will continue to do so (Matthew 18). If I do not offend you but you do not like what I say then please when you see my screen name do not read my post.
Thirdly as I posted in another section, N
NE CAN ACHIEVE RIGHTEOUSNESS APART FROM THE SHED BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST (Romans 3 and Hebrews 9 :22). My best is as filthy rags next to the Perfect Savior Jesus Christ.
I have never once said that wearing dresses has saved me. Nor have I said that I have a better standing with the Lord because of this.
In fact the Lord brought to mind today a woman I know who wears pants and t-shirts and has very short hair. She is a soul winner and she has devoted herself to giving to the poor. I am very pleased to count her as one of my friends and sisters in Christ.
She may very well have for herself stored up more treasures than I in heaven for she seems to have given up much more than I for the poor.
And the same goes for others here. I do not know the works that you do for the Lord. He is the final judge.
I only come to encourage those who may be seeking in THIS AREA IN THEIR LIFE. And I have WELCOMED PRIVATE MESSAGES and will continue to do so.
HCL
Son of Consolation
New Member
Thank you for that statement Headcoveredlady, thank you for the clarification! It is important for all of us to bring back the focus on the things which are eternal and lessen our attention on the things which are temporal.Originally posted by Headcoveredlady: I posted in another section, N
My best is as filthy rags next to the Perfect Savior Jesus Christ.
I have never once said that wearing dresses has saved me. Nor have I said that I have a better standing with the Lord because of this.
I've noticed more than one person, and one person more than once, appeal to the fact that they have never been confused for a man when they wear pants--even from a distance.
Why is that? The color? The style? No, it's because of the shape of their hips.
To me that argument actually reinforces HCL's position. Are women really being modest by revealing the shape of their hips? Interesting thought.
(For the record, my wife wears pants--for now.)
Why is that? The color? The style? No, it's because of the shape of their hips.
To me that argument actually reinforces HCL's position. Are women really being modest by revealing the shape of their hips? Interesting thought.
(For the record, my wife wears pants--for now.)
Well, Aaron, it is pretty easy to see the difference between a guy and a gal that way, even if both are in skirts!
However I am also hoping that it's the way we walk and simply are as well!
Personally, I also have some tops I doubt a guy would be caught dead in -- lace around the necks, cute designs, soft fabrics -- all modest but all quite feminine. Even with jeans one does not have to look like one just finished slopping the hogs!
Granted, there are times I am sure I look like that, but I do shower as quickly as possible and get in something clean and pretty, pants or skirt, after!
However I am also hoping that it's the way we walk and simply are as well!
Personally, I also have some tops I doubt a guy would be caught dead in -- lace around the necks, cute designs, soft fabrics -- all modest but all quite feminine. Even with jeans one does not have to look like one just finished slopping the hogs!
Granted, there are times I am sure I look like that, but I do shower as quickly as possible and get in something clean and pretty, pants or skirt, after!
Headcoveredlady
New Member
Dear Helen,
I have actually seen a man in a skirt, woman's top and high heels once while traveling through Nevada. He had the women's clothing on and long hair but something just did not look right. As far as I know he sure looked like a man in woman's clothing.
You are right that a man can be distingued in woman's clothing too. His figure was just too straight to be that of a woman.
HCL
I have actually seen a man in a skirt, woman's top and high heels once while traveling through Nevada. He had the women's clothing on and long hair but something just did not look right. As far as I know he sure looked like a man in woman's clothing.
You are right that a man can be distingued in woman's clothing too. His figure was just too straight to be that of a woman.
HCL
Helen: Personally, I also have some tops I doubt a guy would be caught dead in -- lace around the necks, cute designs, soft fabrics -- all modest but all quite feminine
_____________________________________________
Have you seen photos of the early clergy with their laced collars and frocks? Feminine? I suppose, even the tie was created by a woman and forced upon the man.
I haven't worn a dress lately, but I do own a Black Watch kilt and knobby knees to boot.oh my goodness!
Cheers,
Jim
_____________________________________________
Have you seen photos of the early clergy with their laced collars and frocks? Feminine? I suppose, even the tie was created by a woman and forced upon the man.
I haven't worn a dress lately, but I do own a Black Watch kilt and knobby knees to boot.oh my goodness!
Cheers,
Jim
Helen said: Well, Aaron, it is pretty easy to see the difference between a guy and a gal that way, even if both are in skirts!
Pretty easy to see the difference when they're naked too. But I suspect that you would not agree that nakedness is modesty.
The question is, are women really being modest by revealing the shape of their hips?
Pretty easy to see the difference when they're naked too. But I suspect that you would not agree that nakedness is modesty.
The question is, are women really being modest by revealing the shape of their hips?
AdoptedDaughter
New Member
Yep....The shape of the hips are going to be seen no matter what you wear, skirt, dress, pants, nothing....if a man has a problem with a woamn wearing pants, and she's wearing modestly, then I suppose there's something more to it that the man has to deal with.....What we think can be a sin....
Aaron said:
Are women really being modest by revealing the shape of their hips? Interesting thought.
Now I'm confused.
Am I supposed to believe Pants Are Evil <tm> because they reveal the wearer's femininity (per HCL's argument)?
Or because pants "pertaineth unto a man" (Deut. 22:5) and therefore obscure her femininity (per Walls' argument on page 1 of this thread)?
Are women really being modest by revealing the shape of their hips? Interesting thought.
Now I'm confused.
Am I supposed to believe Pants Are Evil <tm> because they reveal the wearer's femininity (per HCL's argument)?
Or because pants "pertaineth unto a man" (Deut. 22:5) and therefore obscure her femininity (per Walls' argument on page 1 of this thread)?
That's an idea, Ransom! Bet it would be warm in the winter, too. Hard to get in doors? A revolving door would be a riot! That could be a whole comedy routine all by itself...
Aaron, it's not like we are REVEALING our shapes; it's that -- unless we are built like a thirteen year old -- we have a MOST difficult time hiding them!
Aaron, it's not like we are REVEALING our shapes; it's that -- unless we are built like a thirteen year old -- we have a MOST difficult time hiding them!
AdoptedDaughter
New Member
LOL!Originally posted by Helen:
That's an idea, Ransom! Bet it would be warm in the winter, too. Hard to get in doors? A revolving door would be a riot! That could be a whole comedy routine all by itself...
Aaron, it's not like we are REVEALING our shapes; it's that -- unless we are built like a thirteen year old -- we have a MOST difficult time hiding them!