Wondering Why?

[Bro. James]

They are the demons that were cast out of heaven with Lucifer--the god of this world--the wicked one. These demons possess people--i.e. Hitler and those like him.

Jesus told Peter: "Get thee behind me satan". This would indicate that we all have a demonic nature of some sort--"all have sinned and come short of the glory of God".

Selah,

Bro. James

 

[Ray Berrian]

Wes, Outwest,

As you probably already know Almighty God did not ordain angels to fall from His good graces. How do we know this from the Bible, the Word of God? Ezekiel 28:15 says, that only after ‘iniquity was found in thee,’ then the Lord cast him down from his lofty position before the throne of God. This was not a ‘forced retirement’ from God’s elite corps of angelic beings.

Some angels are now kept under chains in a place of darkness which theologians and Jude 6 speaks of as ‘Tartarus.’ {Greek} The remaining fallen angels are in our world telling the lost to ignore the claims and demands of the Lord God. And as to Christians, these demonic beings tempt and test us to get discouraged and to give up the ‘good fight of faith.’ They try to tempt us to sin against our Lord and to feel as if we are all by ourselves in this world. The fact is, there are many of us who love and are devoted to the Lord.

Elect angels are those who have through the ages remained true to the Lamb of God. No where in Scripture does it say that the Lord God ‘cherry picked’ certain angelic beings. Again, when ‘iniquity was found in some of them’ they were cast out of the throne room of God above.

You might find an interesting study to look up Tartarus which is a Greek word in Jude verse six.

 

[Ray Berrian]

By a forced retirement I mean that the Lord did not ordain their fall; it was their angelic choice. 'When iniquity was found in thee. . . '

 

[Wes Outwest]

Yes Ray, I know, but our friend rc does not seem to know.

 

[rc]

God works ALL THINGS after the council of HIS OWN WILL... not some things... The angels didn't do something unless God allowed it...

 

[Wes Outwest]

rc, Your acceptance and literal interpretation of scripture is the same as you wearing blinkers (what they put on horses in horse races to keep them from being distracted by other horses) to keep your peripheral vision from being effective. Take off the blinkers.

 

[Ray Berrian]

Allowing something to happen and preordaining an event are light years apart. Yes, the angels had the ability of rebel against God and His Being. Nothing happens outside of His knowing and allowing.

The quote was: 'God works ALL THINGS after the council of HIS OWN WILL... not some things... The angels didn't do something unless God allowed it... [/quote]

 

[rc]

Your "light years" behind on Theology proper then. If God doe is in control, if He WILLS something it will come to pass. His Will in allowing something can not BUT come to pass also if He doesn't want something to happen, it will NOT come to pass. He set all things in motion every CAUSE and effect according to His will. He holds ALL things together seen and UNSEEN ! That pretty much covers it.

 

[Wes Outwest]

rc,

Yes, and after he set all things in motion according to his will, on the seventh day HE rested! I believe we are in the late afternoon/evening of that seventh day! No it is not night yet, but it will be night before morning comes again.

All things are going according to God's creation. However, man seems to be a variable that God created with a will of his own! Though God's will is greater than that of man, God allows man to exercise his own will within parameters that God established in the creation. God Gave Man dominion over the world and told man to subdue it! Man could not accomplish God's command without the freedom of self will within the parameters that God established for man.

It seems your theology is very limited and very limiting on God! Your theology makes God work all the time when scriptures say that God rested. Scriptures do not say that God went back to work!

 

[Ray Berrian]

Theology Proper or proper theology does not force God into the mold of Being a Divine Despot.

John 3:16 speaks of His great, great love, not His proclivity toward damning the majority of souls.

Theology Proper is not usually found in Calvinistic theological books, such as the attributes of His love and justice toward all people. In books where love and justice are dealt with, there is no explanation as to how God can be unfair by selecting some for Heaven while wilfully turning most aside, only to drop them into Hell. Either He is just/fair in all dimensions of His Being or He can be unjust at will. Some people have misrepresented Him as being partial. I am not among this group.

 

[Ray Berrian]

Wes, Outwest,

I think your last post was better than excellent.

 

[Wes Outwest]

Regarding my last post, Some will say, then what does it mean in John when it says "the work of God is that we believe in the one whom he sent?"

Quite simply this: God established all the evidence that Jesus is God the Son, the Christ, the Lamb slain from the Foundation of the world, The Wonderful Councellor, The Prince of Peace, etc. etc. etc. So God's Work that "we believe in the one whom He sent" became completed when Jesus went to the cross to atone for Sin, cried out,"it is finished", and died. There is no more work of the Father that is to be done in order for us to believe.

The rest is up to us, We either believe and have everlasting life, or we do not believe and condemn ourselves to the second death, the lake of fire.

God said, "I set before you life and death, Choose Life".

 

[rc]

Ray your blowing smoke! What Calvinistic books do you even know of let alone read!?

Wes... stop taking imperatives and making them indicatives! Choose life! Choose God! Choose Christ! CHoose righteousness! That does not proof anything except you don't understand grammer!

Ray, saving some or even just one out of BILLIONS of people is just. Justice is not the same word as FAIR.. That is a humanistic description not a Biblical one. If He chooses to save one He does not owe us anything. We get what we deserve. Stop complaining to the potter!

 

[onecoolcanuk]

rc said: "That is a humanistic description not a Biblical one." I say, "how so?"

rc said: "If He chooses to save one He does not owe us anything. We get what we deserve. Stop complaining to the potter!" I say, "that's easy for you and any Calvinist to say...you're already saved."

 

[Wes Outwest]

rc, that shows how much you know of the scriptures, God is the one who gives the choice between life or death, and He says, CHOOSE LIFE!

 

[rc]

Oh Wes... great commentary. Haven't understood about imperatives and indicatives yet huh? You haven't commented on your understanding between the two.

Paul was talking to Christians daddy! We're the only ones who CARES about it... Easy for ANY Christian to say... a non-believer doesn't care about this... he thinks it's foolishness.

 

[Wes Outwest]

Just not playin' your game rc. I'll post in the manner that I choose!

It is God who established that imperative! It is you who chooses to ignore God's imperative!

 

[Ray Berrian]

Acts 10:34-35 is an indicator to believers that God is not partial toward certain sinners or in any other area of His moral order and Divine sovereignty. The translation and commentary is by me. ‘He or she who fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by the Lord. Why? Because the Lord is God of justice and is unable to bias His actions toward the lost. The parameters of His integrity, honor and morality forbids that He has respect to certain of His created human beings while passing by other lost persons.’

God would appear a gargantuan Hypocrite by demanding that Christians love their enemies, while He talking out of the other side of His mouth, would love only some of His lost creation and then overtly turning against the remaining lost human beings/the non-elect. The Attribute of God’s love reaches to all lost people. [I John 2:2]

All ‘children of disobedience’ and ‘children of wrath’ [Ephesians 2:2-3] are welcomed to come to Him. [John 3:16]

 

[rc]

God doesn't love everybody the same... or all ... He HATES the wicked... not what they do but them. psalm 5.5

Your understanding of God's justice Ray is based not on the Bible but on humanistic philosophy.

God will have mercy on whom He will have mercy.
He will have wrath on those whom HE PREPARED for wrath.

God is showing the wicked love by just letting them live past the first heart beat of their lives. He let's them live and enjoy their wickedness till their prescribed doom. He let's them mock Him and say He doesn't exist and He let's them live while they worship themselves in their "autonomous" free will. But He doesn't owe them mercy. They deserve what's coming to them. If God chooses by His Sovereign will to save any, by a special love than that is just and perfect if He want's to.

 

[Wes Outwest]

rc, the clear message of the Bible, especially the New Testament is this: God has Chosen to Save those who believe in Him, that is, Have faith in Him when they leave this natural life! He Puts no restriction on who can have faith! Therefore He puts no restriction on whom He saves!