ajg1959 said:
When a person says that they are "children of the King" and therefore have the same power and authority as God does, then I would call that a "most severe offense to the Gospel and Person of the Godhead."
Hopefully this will answer several questions.
When I consider what is to be deemed "heretical" or not I usually take my cues from the early church and their leaders. They set out very early in deciding that issues of heresy were to be determined by denial of foundational belief which is taught clearly in Scripture.
One document that I use as a good measure of these foundational areas is the Apostles Creed (I see it as a confession, but I'll be generous and call it by its regular name.)
I believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord.
He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary.
He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried.
He descended into hell. On the third day he rose again.
He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of God the Father Almighty.
He will come again to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic Church, the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting.
(by "catholic church" I understand that the Apostles Creed means the bride of Jesus Christ i.e. the universal church.)
This is where I set my standard because I see all these things explicitly taught in Scripture as being foundational.
ajg1959 said:
My biggest problem with WoF churches is that many folks respond to the gospel of health and wealth and spiritual power, instead of the Gospel of Christ.. If I ask for salvation because I want health, wealth, ect, and not because I realize that I am a sinner, then I question the reality of the salvation.
What about people who "believe" in the Gospel out of a place of a) intellectual assent but not a true shift in lifestyle, b) decide to follow Christ because of the "fire insurance" that comes with Him?
I'm not a fan of the WoF movement. I think its foolishness and false teaching, but they communicate the Gospel (in most settings) just like many evangelical and Baptist preachers. How often do we hear preachers begging people to be "saved" in order to change their status in life...and that happens in the context of a Baptist church?
ajg1959 said:
In my opinion, teaching a false gospel is one of the worse things we can do, and does serious damage to people's true relationship with God.
I think we need to have a greater conversation about what makes our representation of the Gospel different than theirs. It's like my issue with the Roman Catholic Church, in which many of my friends attend and are faithful Christians. I don't agree with their view of salvation, specifically justification being held by the Church. That doesn't disqualify them from Christianity imho. Same for my Lutheran and Presbyterian friends. Both have different views of the salvation thing but we still enjoy fellowship around the belief that salvation (however it happens) is through Jesus Christ.
ajg1959 said:
And a false gospel is heresy.
But what about
Philippians 1:15-18?
1:15 Some, to be sure, are preaching Christ from envy and rivalry, but others from goodwill. 1:16 The latter do so from love because they know that I am placed here for the defense of the gospel. 1:17 The former proclaim Christ from selfish ambition, not sincerely, because they think they can cause trouble for me in my imprisonment. 1:18 What is the result? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is being proclaimed, and in this I rejoice.
Paul is speaking about two different forms (theologically and methodologically) of Gospel presentation yet finds harmony around the Cross. Why can't we label these people as false teachers (so long as they subscribe to essentials) but deny the label of heresy?
