Words for Roman Catholics to define

[Littledrummerboy]

Psalm,

I have not judged; rather, come to a conclusion. As for the site, I would advise reading it again. You cannot read the material with your own presuppositions and judge them accordingly and expect anything to come into fruition other than what you already wanted to think before you read it.

Curtis,

I could offer up a defense, I choose not to as the time would be used in vain. As for you prayers, I always welcome to prayers of a brother in Christ! Thank you for them.

Pax Christi,

Stephen

Pax Christi,

Stephen

 

[Craigbythesea]

Stephen,

Welcome to the Baptist Board!

I am greatly enjoying reading your posts and the spirit of Christ which they so clearly exemplify. I am greatly ashamed of the attitude that some Baptists display toward the Roman Catholic Church, for I am a Baptist myself, and my heart goes out to you as my brother. Thank you for taking your time to help us better understand each other. May God richly bless you!

CBTS

 

[Littledrummerboy]

God bless Craig! I converted to Roman Catholicism after a few years at a Baptist University ::gasp!:: While all of my professors (I majored in Theology and Philosophy) were quite supportive, many of whom were present at my confirmation, and one of whom was my sponser, I found the students to be the most unlearned concerning the issue. Thank you for your kind words...it is this sentiment that knows Christ's prayer of "Let them be one," is still being answered.

Pax Christi,


Stephen

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Littledrummerboy:
the Roman empire itself only had about a 10 percent litteracy rate.

Is this just your own idea, opinion, or do you have any actual basis in fact.
The fact is that by the time the Roman empire came about, Alexander the Great's influence had been very great. He gave the world Greek culture and the Greek language. By the time the Roman Empire had any foothold, a universal language was already in place--Greek. All had learned Greek: from the master to the slave. The fact was that even most slaves were literate in Greek. They could read and write Greek. Greek was the common language of the day-Koine Greek. This is one of the reasons that the Lord inspired the New Testament writers inspired the writings of the New Testament to write in Greek and not in Hebrew. All could understand Greek It was also one of the reasons that the Hebrew Old Testament was translated into Greek (the Septuagint). All could understand Greek. It was the lingua franca of the day. Even the slaves understand it and were literate in it. I would venture to say that their literacy rate was as high as Canada's or the U.S.A.'s.
DHK

 

[Bro. James]

Please, get behind me Satan,

Jesus had no reservations about exposing errors of those "religious". To the Jewish Leaders He said,"If you do not believe that I AM, you will die in your sins." As a nation, they rejected Him as The Christ--they said,"Crucify Him, Crucify Him".

See also the stoning of Stephen and his message prior to his death.(Books of Acts)

The Apostle Paul(who saw Stephen die) never minced words in the synogogues or anywhere he preached.

Yet we are wise as serpents and harmless a doves.

The gospel is not forced-- but by the "double edged sword" of the Word.

Selah,

Bro. James

 

[Matt Black]

With apologies for derailing this thread still further (although with all the insults flying around in the 'love of Christ' it already resembles something of a train wreck), to those who say the Catholic Church is apostate/ the synagogue of Satan/ Osama bin Laden/ the Church of Darth Vader etc, at what point between the Day of Pentecost and today and as a result of which event did it shift from being the Bride of Christ to the above?

Yours in Christ

Matt

 

[Littledrummerboy]

Brother James,

I have to be honest, I missed the point of your post, but to give you a chance to reference the Gospel according to St. Matthew. I'm sure this will delight you as it opens up a chance for another ad hominem...such is life I suppose. I would be quick to show, however, that the reason the Aposltes were not writing to a large unified church is because there was none. This makes since considering most Christians had to keep quiet or they would suffer persecution. Prior to Constantine's Edict of Milan, it was a death warrent to receive the Bishopric of Rome, or any other major Roman city for that matter.

DHK,
I could dig up the facts, but I think this would have to be something you should trust me on. One of my minors in college was Classical Studies (hence the Latin, and though I have not typed it out, limited Greek). Your facts are simply not right in regards to the spreading of the Greek language throughout the Roman empire. Hellenism was spread throughout the empire, you are right. The gods, and Greek culture pervaded...much like our western culture does throughout the world today, but it was not until the 3rd century BC that the little tribe of Italians would even conquor all of that pennisula. The Italian Romans never spoke Greek, save for the well educated. As for the eastern empire, well of course they spoke it, but that is because they were Greek until the legions came by and told them otherwise. This simple problem of language became a HUGE problem for the eastern and western churches as the centuries went by. St. Augustine, in fact, comments on his limited Greek in "The Confessions." Your guess as to the literacy rate of the Roman empire being comparable to ours is quite off. 10 percent is the highest percentage scholars have, some shrink it down to 5, but it certainly was not any higher than 10.

Matt,

I agree with the ad hominems being too much. Sometimes I let my passions lead me. Thank you for the levelheaded, and objective remarks; I will try to keep my cool. The wisdom of Christ is still here!

Pax Christi,

Stephen

 

[Bro. James]

Now that we are not so dumbeth--

As those who may have gone before us--most of the Apostles were not men of letters either.

Nicodemus, the rabbi, was a "master" of Israel--Jesus told he needed to be "born again".

Let me terminate my input with this:

Matthew 16:18, either establishes Catholicism or not; Peter is either the first Pope or he is not; this is the foundational scripture or not.

If Catholicism is right then all others are apostate. There is no middle ground.

Catholicism is right about the need for scriptural authority--they do err about who has it.

Selah,

Bro. James

 

[Littledrummerboy]

Brother James,

Not necessarily. Yes, we do believe Matthew 16 is the foundation for the church, so technically, yes Catholics would say you do not quite understand that part...but if you read the catechism concerning "separated breathern," you will come to find that you are not apostate. The saving grace of the 2nd person of the trinity rises above such matters! About who has scriptual authority...I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Pax Christi,

Stephen

 

[Bro. James]

tes of Hades.

 

[Matt Black]

Eh??

LDB is right; clause (?) 846 & 847 of the Catechism and para 14 of Lumen Gentium are the salient parts

Yours in Christ

Matt

 

[Littledrummerboy]

Matt,

Thank you for your help! It think, however, it will fall upon deaf ears. Such calous and all around poorly thought out statements such as "Tes of Satan," without any qualification, show that there is an agenda about this man, and honest discourse is not a part of it.

Pax Christi,

Stephen

 

[Littledrummerboy]

I wonder, has anyone taken the time to read the articles posted in answer to the original question of this thread? I would like ot hear any responses be it yay or nay. That could be the beginning of intriguing dialogue.

Pax Christi,

Stephen

 

[Littledrummerboy]

One side note...if any of you could offer up prayers...it is finals week, and my life seems like it has suffered from a serious of train wrecks! Thanks....I posted this on another thread, but though I could get all of the advertisement for prayer I could!

Pax Christi,

Stephen

 

[Johnv]

Hmmm, three pages, and so far, there's been only one post that attempts to answer the OP (via links to other sites), and no post that provides direct answers to the questions of the OP.

 

[Bro. James]

Tes of Satan--

Is a misprint, it is meaningless. I hit the wrong key, got distracted and could not edit in time. Sorry.

Regarding this thread: we really have no basis for discussion if we cannot agree about sola scriptura. Without agreement to a common authority, there is no basis for any discussion.

When two disagree, they both cannot be right--they can both be wrong. What standard is used?

Selah,

Bro. James

 

[Ps104_33]

Hmmm, three pages, and so far, there's been only one post that attempts to answer the OP (via links to other sites), and no post that provides direct answers to the questions of the OP.

Yes, was really looking for some of the RC's on the board to kind of explain in their own words exactly what these terms means to them. If I wanted to read some convoluted tome written by some college of cardinals in Rome I would have done that. I think this "littledrummerboy" is Carson Weber under another name. ( just kidding Carson was a better speller

BTW do you know him?...hmmmmmm?) Read this:

But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. II Cor 11:13

The Roman Catholic Church Has a way of taking something so simple and beautiful and making it so comlicated that all Catholics can do is obey like a bunch of zombies something they don understand.

 

[Littledrummerboy]

Psalm,

The reason I gave the articles is because they are my beliefs as well, better articulated through smarter men. Convoluted? I felt that the articles are straight forward, and due to the complex nature of God, and his grace/justification etc. I could not make it any more concise. I am not this Carson fellow, though it is fasinating, this is not the first time I have been accused of being another person posing under another name on a board...wierd. Thanks for the spelling comment, it added a lot. I am surprised you believe God is simple to understand, I find the supreme creator of the universe who transcends human understanding to be sort of a difficult thing to understand...I could be wrong.

Bro. James,

I was unaware of the spelling misprint, it is beside the point, and I did not intend any sort of ad hominem by it. You are right, we are continually talking past each other, and that is a problem.

Curtis,

You are incorrect, we do not worship idols. We venerate persons and statues yes, this is what the Pope condones, but we do not worship these people. Continue to tell yourself that if you wish, but it does not make it so; all it does do is continue to justify in your mind your presuppositions, and if that helps you to sleep at night, then by all means...that being said, I have already said that some within the church do take things too far, but that is not the teaching of the church.

Pax Christi,

Stephen

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Littledrummerboy:
Psalm,

The reason I gave the articles is because they are my beliefs as well, better articulated through smarter men. Convoluted? I felt that the articles are straight forward, and due to the complex nature of God, and his grace/justification etc. I could not make it any more concise. I am not this Carson fellow, though it is fasinating, this is not the first time I have been accused of being another person posing under another name on a board...wierd. Thanks for the spelling comment, it added a lot. I am surprised you believe God is simple to understand, I find the supreme creator of the universe who transcends human understanding to be sort of a difficult thing to understand...I could be wrong.

originally posted by Psalm 104

I have always said that the main difference between Roman Catholics and Bible Believers is how we define our terms. I would like to see how the Catholics on this board define these words.

1. Grace
2. Justification
3. Sanctification
4. Regeneration
5. Repentance

You simply gave the URL's to Catholic websites that gave the Catholic definitions of these words, which we already know. That just proves what Psalm already said, and what we already know. As others pointed without using the Bible as our final authority in all matters of faith and practice we don't have anything in common.
For example the definition of grace does not common from a Catholic encyclopedia or a Catholic theologian, it comes from the Word of God. So do all the other words and concepts in question. The Bible must be the basis of our discussion. Unless we can agree to that one point, our discussion will go nowhere.

As for grace, it is simple: It is free unmerited favor of God. That is all.
DHK

 

[Littledrummerboy]

DHK,

The OP was to get Catholic definitions of the words, if you already know them, then why ask for them? Furthermore, because it is a meaningless statement for a Catholic to make (that scripture is the final authority) the question must be raised, why is this board open for conversation if we consider these lines of conversation a waste of time? Perhaps we should start this way, very basic: why must the final authority be in scripture?

Pax Christ,

Stephen