Words mean things

[Herald]

Folks, when theology is being discussed it is not nitpicking to ask someone to be careful with their words. The old adage, "Sticks and stones will break my bones but words will never hurt me" is not true. Words carry a lot of weight. When those words are used to describe God, or the Bible, we should take extra care with what comes out of our mouth or what we put into print.

In another thread Van wrote:

Calvinists do not believe the Bible.

He did not qualify his statement. He did not say, "Calvinists do not believe the bible in this area". He made a blanket statement. Really? Calvinists do not believe the Bible? Think about that statement for it is dangerous. The gospel is contained in the Bible. If Calvinists do not believe the Bible then, by extension, they do not believe the gospel. If they do not believe the gospel then how can they be saved? Perhaps that is not what Van meant, but he has been so incensed at being called out for his careless words that he refuses to retract or modify his statement. He wants to make it into an argument on Calvinism, which it is not.

Not to be outdone, Winman chimed in with:

I would say Calvinists do not believe the Bible and I would not take it back or apologize, because it is the truth.

If Van was careless with his words, Winman cannot claim the same. By writing, "I would not take it back or apologize" he knew exactly what he was writing. Once again Calvinists do not believe the Bible, or by extension the gospel.

I do not expect those who disagree with Calvinism to see it from my point of view. But what if I said Arminians or non-Calvinists do not believe the Bible? Would that be an acceptable statement? Of course I would never make that statement. I would say that we disagree on what the Bible teaches in a specific area(s). That is a far cry from saying that the other side does not believe the Bible.

This is a debate forum. It is not for the faint of heart. Sometimes debate gets rather heated. But we need to be careful with our words. When we cross the line we should man up and retract hurtful or inaccurate comments. Refusing to do so speaks volumes about our character.

 

[saturneptune]

I do not believe saying either group "does not believe the Bible" is productive or true. A debate is not a contest on who has the thicker skin, but who has the best Scriptural references, regardless of the subject. Ignoring the tone of the wording, both Benjamin and Winman, for example, have a good grasp on how they know Scripture in relation to their conclusions. Although long, Van's posts are weak and inconsistent. The extent of Dr JAs posts are cut and paste.

Getting back to the tone and use of words, the basic BB rule is not questioning salvation of another believer. Many try and use wording that takes posts right up to the line at different angles. For example, what is the real difference in substance in saying for example, saturneptune is a Calvinist, therefore does not believe the Bible, and saying saturneptune is lost? Whether or not the line is crossed is a judgment call moderators must figure out. The same can be said if one says "what you posted is heresy, or false doctrine."

IMO, the Calvinist-free will debates are the second most destructive on the board. The most destructive posters are those who never engage in another subject, and any subject they do engage in turns into a Calvinist debate. I could start a thread on the proper mode of baptism, and these individuals would turn it into a Calvinist debate.

The only threads that outdo the election threads is the KJVO threads, but the same pattern exists, except to say the subject matter is much more ludicrous.

One of the most mind boggling thing on this whole board is the concept of pastors, leaders of a local church somewhere in this nation, making the tone of the posts that they do, then turning right around and standing before a congregation on Sunday with big smiles and saying flowery words.

 

[DrJamesAch]

I do not believe saying either group "does not believe the Bible" is productive or true. A debate is not a contest on who has the thicker skin, but who has the best Scriptural references, regardless of the subject. Ignoring the tone of the wording, both Benjamin and Winman, for example, have a good grasp on how they know Scripture in relation to their conclusions. Although long, Van's posts are weak and inconsistent. The extent of Dr JAs posts are cut and paste.

Getting back to the tone and use of words, the basic BB rule is not questioning salvation of another believer. Many try and use wording that takes posts right up to the line at different angles. For example, what is the real difference in substance in saying for example, saturneptune is a Calvinist, therefore does not believe the Bible, and saying saturneptune is lost? Whether or not the line is crossed is a judgment call moderators must figure out. The same can be said if one says "what you posted is heresy, or false doctrine."

IMO, the Calvinist-free will debates are the second most destructive on the board. The most destructive posters are those who never engage in another subject, and any subject they do engage in turns into a Calvinist debate. I could start a thread on the proper mode of baptism, and these individuals would turn it into a Calvinist debate.

The only threads that outdo the election threads is the KJVO threads, but the same pattern exists, except to say the subject matter is much more ludicrous.

One of the most mind boggling thing on this whole board is the concept of pastors, leaders of a local church somewhere in this nation, making the tone of the posts that they do, then turning right around and standing before a congregation on Sunday with big smiles and saying flowery words.

Funny you should have room to chime in. Didn't you just get infracted for being a racist! And ironically, IT WAS A CALVINIST that reported it.

 

[convicted1]

I do not believe the Bible is true. Ignoring the wording, scripture is weak and inconsistent. Saturneptune is a Calvinist, therefore he does not believe the Bible.

I'd thought better than this of you.....


BTW, "cut and paste" is fun!!!


:wavey: :smilewinkgrin: :love2:

 

[preacher4truth]

Funny you should have room to chime in. Didn't you just get infracted for being a racist! And ironically, IT WAS A CALVINIST that reported it.

Was that post necessary? Let me answer for you. No.

To the OP. I witness these things in here a lot. I couldn't care less what some non-cals and anti-cals want to level against us. None of it is true and in the case of the the quotes in the OP it is nothing short of a slanderous insult.

The thing that I do know is that if the same were leveled against their camp the guilty party would get their post snipped, an infraction or banned. You can count on that and it looks like they get a free ride. I'd say those comments should have been snipped. I don't know if you've bothered to report them or not.

Furthermore I don't find engaging with these types profitable. I noticed a new thread with a poll about Calvinists and took note that those who voted we don't use logic (poll question written with a denigrating tone) that those who rush into threads to make a snippy comment to not talk to someone in a certain way went ahead and voted for the nasty poll against Calvinists. Yes. Lot's of bias and hypocrisy.

Herald, I wouldn't worry about these things, it's just not worth it. Keeping things in perspective here as well, look at what type of theology is being held to to which these accusations are coming from, and respectfully I will say that most of their interpretations of Scripture are faulty and they simply cannot see it. That's something to seriously ponder, as that is what and to whom you are dealing with brother.

- Blessings

 

[Benjamin]

...most of their interpretations of Scripture are faulty and they simply cannot see it. That's something to seriously ponder, as that is what and to whom you are dealing with brother.

- Blessings

Originally Posted by Winman
I would say Calvinists do not believe the Bible and I would not take it back or apologize, because it is the truth.

Pretty much the same difference between what these two posts are saying. Main difference as I see it is one being more direct than the other. If one is going to say it, then say it. To take the high road attitude while worming around and basically turning around and saying the same thing just seems to add another dimension to the offense because of one taking pride in thinking they are flying under the radar while suggesting they are better than the other but in reality they are doing the same thing and this kind of hypocrisy just add insult to the injury.

 

[DrJamesAch]

Was that post necessary? Let me answer for you. No.

To the OP. I witness these things in here a lot. I couldn't care less what some non-cals and anti-cals want to level against us. None of it is true and in the case of the the quotes in the OP it is nothing short of a slanderous insult.

The thing that I do know is that if the same were leveled against their camp the guilty party would get their post snipped, an infraction or banned. You can count on that and it looks like they get a free ride. I'd say those comments should have been snipped. I don't know if you've bothered to report them or not.

Furthermore I don't find engaging with these types profitable. I noticed a new thread with a poll about Calvinists and took note that those who voted we don't use logic (poll question written with a denigrating tone) that those who rush into threads to make a snippy comment to not talk to someone in a certain way went ahead and voted for the nasty poll against Calvinists. Yes. Lot's of bias and hypocrisy.

Herald, I wouldn't worry about these things, it's just not worth it. Keeping things in perspective here as well, look at what type of theology is being held to to which these accusations are coming from, and respectfully I will say that most of their interpretations of Scripture are faulty and they simply cannot see it. That's something to seriously ponder, as that is what and to whom you are dealing with brother.

- Blessings

Yup, the post sure was necessary. http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=87077&page=9, Posts 84 and 85. Not to mention the fact that he slandered me on this thread as well. But, you and most Calvinists on here that attacked the Non Cals make a habit of defending each other and then wiping your mouths saying "I have done no wickedness". Then when the Non Cals get fed up and fight back you all play the victim. What you've seen in the last month is the backlash of Non Cals sick of the debate tactics, vitriol and pejorative rhetoric of Calvinists, and now we are seeing threads like this?

I've caught you personally doing it, and your response was "Oh, I didn't see it". Yeah right.

And you don't find these type of debates "profitable"? You forget about posts like this? http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1987997&postcount=65

Your VERY FIRST interaction with me was attacking my intelligence, attacking my character, attacking my understanding, and used overtly pejorative language in virtually every comment you made while I responded civilly(Here) until I got sick of the attitudes on here that I saw Calvinists take with ALL of the Non Cals on here, then I gave a little of it back, and many others have followed suit, and now some of you don't like it, and are playing the victim.

 

[Herald]

preacher4truth, I did not bother to report them because no action would be taken.

 

[preacher4truth]

Yup, the post sure was necessary. http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=87077&page=9, Posts 84 and 85. Not to mention the fact that he slandered me on this thread as well. But, you and most Calvinists on here that attacked the Non Cals make a habit of defending each other and then wiping your mouths saying "I have done no wickedness". Then when the Non Cals get fed up and fight back you all play the victim. What you've seen in the last month is the backlash of Non Cals sick of the debate tactics, vitriol and pejorative rhetoric of Calvinists, and now we are seeing threads like this?

I've caught you personally doing it, and your response was "Oh, I didn't see it". Yeah right.

And you don't find these type of debates "profitable"? You forget about posts like this? http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1987997&postcount=65

Your VERY FIRST interaction with me was attacking my intelligence, attacking my character, attacking my understanding, and used overtly pejorative language in virtually every comment you made while I responded civilly(Here) until I got sick of the attitudes on here that I saw Calvinists take with ALL of the Non Cals on here, then I gave a little of it back, and many others have followed suit, and now some of you don't like it, and are playing the victim.

Do you have anything to add to the OP or are you still derailing it? By the way, contrary to my position in the past, I whole-heartedly agree with my statement in your link. It is based upon pure fact. Facts are not slander -- you should learn that. By the way, thanks, I enjoyed the re-read. :thumbs:

The tally did rise and prove you wrong and you were taken to task with your false interpretations. The Word wins every time.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Herald.....when the moderators allow crack pots to post, what can you expect! Certainly not people with any scholarly agenda. The intent is to debase & excoriate .... and they get away with it. Take my advice & use the ignore feature for the "Cretin Crew" or what is it Iconoclast refers to them as...ah yes "Team Jihad" :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

preacher4truth, I did not bother to report them because no action would be taken.

Conflict sometimes increases readership....If you want to just stay around people with like minds, then go hang around either the Calvinist Cafe or the Puritan Board.

These guys at BB have to sell advertising time....Ca Ching $$$! :laugh:

 

[DrJamesAch]

preacher4truth, I did not bother to report them because no action would be taken.

Perhaps that's because we don't refer to our opponents as Muslim terrorists (see EWF's post above). What the post should really be titled is "Words Mean Things When Calvinists Say Them". This is the Typical elitist attitude that Benjamin was talking about in another thread.

And Winman was right, and shouldn't apologize for anything he said. Calvinists DON'T believe the Bible, they believe a murdering baby sprinkler's INTERPRETATION of the Bible and man made creeds as their final authority. The final authority for the Calvinist is NOT WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS, but what John Calvin and Augustine SAID it SAID. That's not believing the Bible, so Winman was dead on.

And I'm sure if it were legal in your country to kill Non Calvinists, you'd be rounding us all up like Calvin did. You attempt to word-lynch every Non Calvinist on here so wouldn't be such a stretch to assume you'd probably rather just KILL US-worked for Calvin, Luther, Augustine and the RCC. In fact, I bet the Calvinists reading this thread are thinking about giving us a nice hot oil bath right about now or burning us at the stake! (Especially us "Zionists".)

"Ah yes, may I speak to Pope Francis...we have a heretic in Israel name Ach that we'd like to extradite to the USA for burning at the stake. Would you issue a Papal Bull to Mr Netanyahu please! Thank you! Looking forward to the day when you Canonize John Calvin. After all, St. Augustine was his mentor, and we Calvinists have done a great job at deflecting attention from Calvinism off of Augustine, so you owe us one!".

 

[preacher4truth]

And Winman was right, and shouldn't apologize for anything he said. Calvinists DON'T believe the Bible, they believe a murdering baby sprinkler's INTERPRETATION of the Bible and man made creeds as their final authority. The final authority for the Calvinist is NOT WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS but what John Calvin and Augustine SAID it SAID. That's not believing the Bible, so Winman was dead on.

Keep talking, slandering, adding straw man arguments, and caricatures while adding nothing to the OP. :thumbsup:

 

[DrJamesAch]

Keep talking, slandering, adding straw man arguments, and caricatures while adding nothing to the OP. :thumbsup:

Oh, get over it. You self righteous demigogues have been derailing the threads of Non Calvinists for months. Remember "OH yes KY, I know what 'TAG TEAM' means"? You even had the nerve to say it "out loud" about tag teaming me and HOS (who got BANNED while you whining sniveling crybabies are complaining that the "mods never do anything"), and then have the audacity to complain that any one is derailing someone's thread.

When you open a thread and direct it at Non Calvinists, don't cry like a priest at a wedding seminar when they fire back at you. I'm just adding a balance to these hypocritical sycophantic threads against Non Calvinists.

 

[preacher4truth]

Oh, get over it. You self righteous demigogues have been derailing the threads of Non Calvinists for months. Remember "OH yes KY, I know what 'TAG TEAM' means"? You even had the nerve to say it "out loud" about tag teaming me and HOS (who got BANNED while you whining sniveling crybabies are complaining that the "mods never do anything"), and then have the audacity to complain that any one is derailing someone's thread.

When you open a thread and direct it at Non Calvinists, don't cry like a priest at a wedding seminar when they fire back at you. I'm just adding a balance to these hypocritical sycophantic threads against Non Calvinists.

Go prove that I said tag team along with KY. That's right, you can't because I never made such a statement. Try using facts.

Believe me I'm not worried about what you say. What you say has no bearing on truth whatsoever. I do however find it comical that you behave the way you do with all of your denigrating comments.

I see you also agree that you're derailing the thread and don't care about this or BB rules.

Looking at what HoS was saying I'd gather that is why he was banned.

Go ahead. Keep talking. Add more vitriol and disdain. Who cares? :wavey:

 

[DrJamesAch]

Believe me I'm not worried about what you say. What you say has no bearing on truth whatsoever. I do however find it comical that you behave the way you do with all of your denigrating comments.

I see you also agree that you're derailing the thread and don't care about this or BB rules.

Looking at what HoS was saying I'd gather that is why he was banned.

Go ahead. Keep talking. Add more vitriol and disdain. Who cares? :wavey:

You keep saying you don't care but yet you keep responding! :tonofbricks:
Everything I have accused you and others of, I have backed up with links and documentation where anyone that wants to know why I said what I said can look at the evidence for themselves. I don't expect the Calvies to agree because birds of a feather LIE together.

You refer to "BB rules" when I offer numerous links that prove what a hypocrite you are, when you won't follow them yourself. Sorry masta, I didn't wash my hands before I ate this evening, and no I won't be joining you when you stand in front of the crowds to pray out loud, and no I won't I help you dye your phylacteries and put little liberty bells on them with John Calvin's initials.

Don't choke on that camel you swallowed.

 

[preacher4truth]

You keep saying you don't care but yet you keep responding! :tonofbricks:
Everything I have accused you and others of, I have backed up with links and documentation where anyone that wants to know why I said what I said can look at the evidence for themselves. I don't expect the Calvies to agree because birds of a feather LIE together.

You refer to "BB rules" when I offer numerous links that prove what a hypocrite you are, when you won't follow them yourself. Sorry masta, I didn't wash my hands before I ate this evening, and no I won't be joining you when you stand in front of the crowds to pray out loud, and no I won't I help you dye your phylacteries and put little liberty bells on them with John Calvin's initials.

Don't choke on that camel you swallowed.

No you haven't backed up everything with links.

I really don't care about your untruths leveled against the Calvinists.

OK, go back up the accusation that I said 'out loud' let's tag team.

Where's the link? :wavey:

I see that you don't like the competition against your tag team.

Yes, you're calling us liars and hypocrites again. You want others to go back and forth with you with these things as it looks like you live for this. All you've brought thus far are denigrating comments. You should really learn to control yourself. :thumbsup:

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Calvinists DON'T believe the Bible, they believe a murdering baby sprinkler's INTERPRETATION of the Bible and man made creeds as their final authority. The final authority for the Calvinist is NOT WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS, but what John Calvin and Augustine SAID it SAID. That's not believing the Bible, so Winman was dead on.

And I'm sure if it were legal in your country to kill Non Calvinists, you'd be rounding us all up like Calvin did. You attempt to word-lynch every Non Calvinist on here so wouldn't be such a stretch to assume you'd probably rather just KILL US-worked for Calvin, Luther, Augustine and the RCC. In fact, I bet the Calvinists reading this thread are thinking about giving us a nice hot oil bath right about now or burning us at the stake! (Especially us "Zionists".)

Jimmy, is your behavior here and on OnlineBaptist the fruit of Arminianism?

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Yes, you're calling us liars and hypocrites again. You want others to go back and forth with you with these things as it looks like you live for this. All you've brought thus far are denigrating comments. You should really learn to control yourself. :thumbsup:

He does seem to have an issue with telling the truth. In another thread, he claimed that I was "obsessed" with him and was following him from message board to message board.

One small problem: a quick look at both our profiles on both message boards show that I was a member of both message boards before he ever showed up.

At this point, it's gone so far beyond merely being rude, obnoxious, and dishonest, that the only conclusion I can come to is that he is mentally ill and isn't playing with a full deck.

 

[preacher4truth]

He does seem to have an issue with telling the truth. In another thread, he claimed that I was "obsessed" with him and was following him from message board to message board.

One small problem: a quick look at both our profiles on both message boards show that I was a member of both message boards before he ever showed up.

At this point, it's gone so far beyond merely being rude, obnoxious, and dishonest, that the only conclusion I can come to is that he is mentally ill and isn't playing with a full deck.

I wonder if he really wants mature dialogue or if he simply wants to sling mud?