Works ARE Neccessary for Salvation

When you inherit something it is given to you without you earning it! I never had to earn my eternal salvation as Jesus did it for me.

I was Totally Depraved because of my federal head Adam. Before the very foundation of the world I was elected by the Father and given to the Son. All those that the Father gave him he saved on the tree of Calvary by bearing their sins and died for them only. On the third day he arose from the dead then ascended to heaven to sit on the right hand of God.

You can read all my thoughts on the Calvinism/Arminian TULIP thread doctrine... I won't go into it here... Sound doctrine says an inheritance is a gift and that what I believe! The Lord of Glory purchased me and all his children by his Irresistible Grace alone and they can never fall and are secure for all eternity!

Upon "THIS ROCK" I will build my church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it!... Brother Glen

 

Dr. Bob can you run that by me again?... Brother Glen

 

As a "staunch 5-point Calvinist", I can't believe you said that. The reason there is T is because the Arminian remonstrants denied total depravity. Even today, it is a staple of Arminian-Evangelical theology that man is not so depraved that he cannot turn to God on his own. Just this morning I heard a SS teacher say that first we repent, and then we are born again. That is self-birth and salvation by works, instead of the biblcal doctrine of being born from above so we can repent, believe and receive faith.

 

Chris, et al,
I have to admit, I have never been so misunderstood in all my days. What must I do, present the Westminster or the Baptist confession of 1689 so I can get my position across? Let me state again for the record, *I am* a 5 point Calvinist. This is not to say I see Calvin or his institutes above the supremacy of Holy writ. I fully wave the flag of *total depravity*. I in no way believe men choose God or that one can lose his salvation once God begins it.

Chris,
If you will again re-read what I posted, you will see that you have misinterpreted my intent.
Here is the original post....
I wrote: (In regards to what Tyndale stated about total depravity and my premise that men must be proactive in their salvation)
My friend (To Tyndale),
This is not an issue of *total depravity*. Any theologian knows that man outside of Gods grace is depraved with no hope of salvation.

Bob Griffin states: "Staunch 5-point calvinist saying that man MUST do something. Amazing Grace + ???".
I reply:
Bob, let me repost what you replied to.
Here is my post you responded to, in it's full context.
I wrote:
My friend (Again to Tyndale),
This is not an issue of *total depravity*. Any theologian knows that man outside of Gods grace is depraved with no hope of salvation. It is a basic principle to understand that because of Gods grace, man can and will respond. But this in fact does not discount the fact that man must respond to the call, that he must repent and that he must believe. *He* (man)must do all these things. As I said earlier, God allows repentance and man repents, God allows for response to the Gospel call and man responds, God allows for belief and man believes. Yet the lines in scripture, in regards to Gods devine election and mans responsibility do meet. Spurgeon said it best, "They are two friends (election and mans responsibility) that do not need reconciling".

Bob, Chris, et al,
Is it not clear?
Do you see that I in no way have implied that man is not *totally depraved. Dead as a doornail*. However, I have implied that to every action there is reaction.

More on it's way..........
In HIM,
Sola Fide,
Scott Bushey

 

Gentlemen,
Have I missed something here? All of the great reformers of the past acknowledge God sovereignty and supremency in the salvific process. But most all of them also agree that men play a part in the miracle. Men are called and yes they respond, they are regenerated and given the gift of repentance and subsequently, rightfully repent. God gives them faith through grace to believe, and they believe. No one has argued these miraculous rudements.
But to imply that subsequent to the regeneratory miracle men do not have to react or respond to it is absurd. For every cause, there is an affect. Action causes reaction. Scripture shows both concepts and harmonizes it.

Let me say this, God is sovereign. And as it is stated in Jonah, "salvation is of the Lord". I am, as you have called me, am a staunch Calvinist. Before I studied these ideas, I was much like you, singular to the fact. Packers book, Evangelism and the Sovereignty of God unearthed much study time on this subject.
Spurgeon believed the same. I agree with them at this time. Men are called to believe! They are called to repent! Scripture demands that men call on the name of the Lord. To seek Him, while He may be found.
This excerpt from Spurgeons sermon on Romans state:
This doctrine (Mans responsibility in salvation) is as much God's Word as the other(Gods sovereignty in the elective process). You ask me to reconcile the two. I answer, they do not want any reconcilement; I never tried to reconcile them to myself, because I could never see a discrepancy. If you begin to put fifty or sixty quibbles to me, I cannot give any answer. Both are true; no two truths can be inconsistent with each other; and what you have to do is to believe them both. With the first one, the saint has most to do. Let him praise the free and sovereign grace of God, and bless his name. With the second, the sinner has the most to do. O sinner, humble thyself under the mighty hand of God, when thou thinkest of how often he hath shown his love to thee, by bidding thee come to himself, and yet how often thou hast spurned his Word and refused his mercy, and turned a deaf ear to every invitation, and hast gone thy way to rebel against a God of love, and violate the commands of him that loved thee.

I exhort you all. If you have not read Calvins Commentaries, you should. The issue we address is embraced by the father of the reformed.

Here is a link to the sermon on Romans by C. Spurgeon. http://www.txdirect.net/~tgarner/spur207.htm

In Him,
Solo Christo,
Scott Bushey

 

Scott:
If WE are ALL misunderstanding you, perhaps you are not being clear?

I still don't see how I've misrepresented what you have said. You said:

**"This is not an issue of *total depravity*. Any theologian knows that man outside of Gods grace is depraved with no hope of salvation.**

And I said this is simply not true. ALL Arminian theologians do not believe that man outside of God's grace is depraved with no hope of salvation; they all believe that if they act in faith God will respond in giving them salvation. Your "Any theologian" qualifier does not stick.

This is not Calvinism. God does not "allow" repentance, but grants it. God does not "allow" for a response to the gospel but works it; God does not "allow" for belief, but instills it.

This is true. But so far your Calvinistic statements seem more like the Calminian statements of Norman Geisler in Chosen But Free, rather than classical Calvinism.

Perhaps I am still misuderstanding.

 

I wouldn't trust the best fifteen minutes of my life in order to be saved--nor would I trust the best fifteen minutes in order to keep me saved. My faith and trust is in the Lord Jesus Christ alone--I have repented of my sins and have received HIM as Savior and Lord. Notice I said that I've receive HIM and not just a knowledge of him. I didn't receive the truth about Jesus to get me saved--I received Jesus as the only truth of salvation.

 

LP,
You are correct.......1995 to be exact.
Scott

 

I agree with Dr. Bob and this thread has drifted off into theological never...never land!... Brother Glen

 

I agree gentlemen............shall we move on? I find the point *moot*.

In HIM,
Scott Bushey

 

Scott,

Even though it seems you were misunderstood, I for one benifited from reading your replies. Glad to have you on the board.